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| Posted: Sat Jun 23rd, 2012 05:29 am |
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1st Post |
titus
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So I was reading, Chili Line: The Narrow Rail Trail to Santa Fe by John A. Gjevre and it mentioned that General William Jackson Palmer's original intention for the D&RG was to span from Denver to El Paso, with a potential extension to the Pacific Ocean via Guymas Mexico. I knew the D&RG was down in New Mexico and halted by agreement with the AT&SF but I didn't realize the famous 3 foot narrow gauge was destined for Texas and beyond. Just wondering -- has anyone ever done any layout planning or building on a "what if" scenario, what if the AT&SF hadn't stopped the D&RG in NM, what would that have looked like? Would we have seen K-27's along side a pacific or gulf ocean front dock?
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| Posted: Sun Jun 24th, 2012 02:58 am |
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elminero67
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Parts of General Palmer's vision of building a network of narrow gauge into Mexico came into fruition before that plan er..went south. The most important part of that system was the Mexican National, which went from Laredo to Mexico City. I cant remember if Palmer actually sent out a survey team for the line to Guaymas, or if it was just rhetoric, but Guaymas may be a contender for the "city with the most projected railroad lines" in North America award: On paper Guaymas is the closest port to much of the American interior, ie. Colorado, Kansas etc. The reality of it is that it wasnt that practical. Prior to President Porfirio Diaz there was no stability in Mexico, and even after he came in and created order with an iron fist, crossing the Sierra Madre was extremely difficult-the nearest railroad line south of this projected line required 75 years to construct with 88 tunnels. A railroad line from El Paso straight to Guaymas would be equally tough. Would be very interesting from a historical and engineering standpoint...
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| Posted: Sun Jun 24th, 2012 03:07 pm |
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3rd Post |
Herb Kephart
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Does sound like the inspiration for a "what if" model railroad.
And the pick nitters would have to chew on their tongues---
"well, I don't think that the real one would have-----"
"#*^~*# you-this IS the real one"
Herb 
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Fix it again, Mr Gates--it still works!"
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| Posted: Sun Jun 24th, 2012 03:42 pm |
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4th Post |
W C Greene
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I KNEW that Duane would have the historical background on this. We are fortunate to have his opinions and information here.
Like Herbie sayeth-"#*^~# you-this IS the real one"
And what I have been saying for many years-"this IS the prototype"...that will really make them holler, kind of like "My model is missing 2 rivets, well let's see YOURS"!
I think that would be a neat line to model. Big old K locos and a connect with Mexican NG...Most of the big Mexican NG railroads had large 2-8-2's (even one ex D&RGW mike) and even 3 foot gauge 2-6-6-2's, not compact ones like Uintah Mallets, but big old hogs! Yes, you could probably get carried away modeling this and well you should. Go for it!
Woodie
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It doesn't matter if you win or lose, its' how you rig the game.
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| Posted: Sun Jun 24th, 2012 04:24 pm |
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elminero67
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Here's a couple pics of the Northern Sierra Madre where a line from El Paso to Guaymas woud have crossed: The first pic is one of the smaller ranges within the Sierra Madre caled the Sierra El Tigre-one of the most isolated and unknown mountain ranges in North America, and as its name suggests is home not only to jaguars, but also had grizzly bears into the 1980s (I once spent a week hiking around the Sierra El Tigre looking for a rare wild parrett). A railroad through here woud have passed gold, copper and silver mines like the famed El Tigre mine, the largest pine forest in Mexico as well as some of the most productive cattle ranching areas in Mexico:
The west side of the Sierra Madre is much rougher than the east-here is a typical canyon on the west side. Depending on where the narrow gauge would have passed, it would have had to cross 40-80 miles of country like this: BTW, This is the country that inspired my Torres & Prietas, which had a concession to build further into the Sierra Madre, but never did largely because of the Mexican Revoution:
 Last edited on Sun Jun 24th, 2012 04:24 pm by elminero67
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| Posted: Mon Jun 25th, 2012 12:56 am |
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6th Post |
Herb Kephart
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Only John Allen would consider building a railroad through that!
Herb
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Fix it again, Mr Gates--it still works!"
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| Posted: Mon Jun 25th, 2012 03:59 pm |
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mwiz64
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Shoot, you could easily land a plane there... 
Mike
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| Posted: Tue Jun 26th, 2012 05:11 am |
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titus
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The funny thing is when I saw those photos you posted I was thinking, "Well that looks a lot like his layout". And then I saw, "This is the country that inspired my Torres & Prietas" so I guess that's a good mark of success for you!
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| Posted: Tue Jun 26th, 2012 02:32 pm |
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9th Post |
elminero67
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Thanks-this thread has me wondering if I need to extend the Torres & prietas further into the Sierra Madre...
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| Posted: Tue Jun 26th, 2012 02:40 pm |
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10th Post |
titus
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I had been waffling around trying to figure out how to get Colorado narrow gauge equipment to look "right" on a water front shelf layout and I think I figured it out here with this one. My little side project shelf layout may have just become Guaymas, Mexico. I need to start doing some experiments on stucco style buildings in HO now...
This just became Guaymas....
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