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Visualizing Gas Switcher With Graphics 1:55n3
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 Posted: Sun Dec 16th, 2018 03:27 pm
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W C Greene
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Now you got it!
Over many years of building things, I have found that I love making my own stuff far more than opening a box and reading instructions.
These days, I could easily afford expensive kits and RTR equipment but then I would be throwing instructions in the trash,
and making my own thing from the supplied materials and taking the RTR loco apart and making something totally different from the parts.
You seem to be that way also, make it yourself, save a bundle, and have what YOU want...not what some company thinks you want.
Now, get out the blades and saws and glue and get to work.

Woodie




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 Posted: Sun Dec 16th, 2018 06:09 pm
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Steven B
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Now we're talkin'!!  :thumb:

Instructions?! 
Geeze I don't know if I've ever read any that made an sense, or if they did, I didn't like the end result. 
I always change up the stuff that I build, kit or otherwise. 
None of it ever looks like what I bought.

:P




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 Posted: Wed Dec 19th, 2018 10:09 am
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Si.
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:old dude:

When someone asks for advice, it is important to give GOOD advice.

It's all very well saying TEAR UP THE RULE BOOK for whatever reason ...

... but that is hardly GOOD advice for someone with a SPECIFIC problem with 'scale'.



I'd be the FIRST to say that about the rule book, if I was totally 'free' to do so !

But I can't & I'm not !!



The central issue of 'scale' seems to me to be pretty important to what we are doing ...

... if we are trying to create a 'small slice of reality' on our benches.

A 'master model maker' may well be able to throw together stuff from all sorts of different scales & make it 'work' ...

... but we are not all 'master model makers' !



The thing is, confronted by something which is OUT OF SCALE it's damn hard to just ignore !

It could totally wreck the 'illusion' & despite the fact that it is a lovely well made model ...

... it SUCKS !



But of course the ... 'its my railroad I'll do what the $%&£ I want'  ism ... may well be fine for the builder.

If that's what makes a good model to them, fine.

If that's GOOD advice for someone with a specific question about scale ? ...

... it isn't.



Of course you can't just 'upscale' what you have, to a larger scale, without stuff that looks OK, then becoming too small !

There is only SO FAR you can 'push' the upscale or downscale thing, before it just falls apart & looks like what it isn't.



So how far is too far ?

Well, you can be the judge of that ...

... after all it's your $%&£ing railroad !

But if it looks WRONG ... then it generally IS wrong.



:moose:



Si.



No comment whatsoever intended about T.G.B.s models B.T.W.

As I have expressed on numerous occasions through the Thread they are lookin' good.

( except for the couplers ! )

He just has a few 'what scale am I doing ?' questions to answer & then business as usual !




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' Mysterious Moose Mountain ' - 1:35n2 - pt.II
http://www.freerails.com/view_topic.php?id=7318&forum_id=17&page=1

' M:R:W Motor Speedway !!! ' - 1:32 Slotcar Racing Layout
http://www.slotforum.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=59295&st=0&a
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 Posted: Thu Dec 20th, 2018 01:16 am
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Traingeekboy
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Good points.


Despite having been into trains all my life, I am sort of in newbie mode.

Your points about needing some kind of useful reference are worth noting.


I don't take too kindly when people criticize my Crapplers though. :glad:



Right now work has taken over my life again.

But I am still planning and plotting a little bit.




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 Posted: Sat Dec 29th, 2018 07:05 pm
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Traingeekboy
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I've been working a lot, tons of huge deadlines on the job.

Now that I have met the deadlines, I am digging into this scale thing again.

The first three builds were just fun to do.
I would just look at what was there and use it to make these models.

I asked my buddy if I could borrow some Tamiya figures from his military models collection,
and he loaned me an unbuilt kit to play with.





So, here are some 1/35th scale figures in a side view of my little loco.





When I look at the back, the loco door seems tiny. Should I even care?





I measured my HO scale track and then used twice that to estimate 6 feet.
It comes out closer to 35mm as a figure scale.





Now here is my caboose drawing at 1/35th scale with the loco and figures.

My buddy said to go with 1/35 since I am just messing around.

My mental concept was to merely take old HO things and build over and onto them.
At this point if I go with 1/35th it would be easier to completely scratch build the caboose model.

The scratch build might be easier as I would just build the frame and then build the box structure.

Another thing I noticed is that since in 1/55 I was using prototypes that were more like 2' gauge,
I was losing a bit of the Narrow aspect on the trains.

If I go full on 1/35th, the overhang on the trucks will be more extreme and give more of a dinky look to tho everything.

If I use 1/55th, then my planned project after the caboose,
is to take an old HO scale 4-4-0 and make some kind of Fantasy loco with that as well.
So in 1/35th this might end up as a really dinky loco.

Lastly, Considering the size of my models and the gauge, another good question is:
Why not just split the difference and do On30?

Yo Tengo Muchos Problemas




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 Posted: Sat Dec 29th, 2018 07:13 pm
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Daniel Osvaldo Caso
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L: ...

:java:

:wave:


Daniel



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 Posted: Sat Dec 29th, 2018 07:50 pm
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Traingeekboy
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On a complete side note.

Went by the local Goodwill store. I was on the hunt for model materials.
The one thing I was missing is some wire to bend into grab irons and steps.





Sure enough, this was right there in front of me.
It was untagged and the cashier charged me .53 cents.

This is likely enough wire to last me for years.
Uhm, 18" pieces times 35 is 52 and a half feet!

And more ruminations on scale...





Look at the HO scale wheels next to a 1/35th model of the caboose.
Maybe it's not as extreme in this photo, but in real life my wheels are way too small.

With the 1/55th drawing the wood comes out almost exact for the board by board look, and the wheels are much closer. 

Perhaps my materials are going to solve my problem for me?




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 Posted: Sat Dec 29th, 2018 11:44 pm
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Si.
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" Look at the HO scale wheels next to a 1/35th model of the caboose.

Maybe it's not as extreme in this photo, but in real life my wheels are way too small "



Hi T.G.B.  :wave:



I had been wondering if THAT was going to be the next BIG, or 'small', hiccup on your path to narrow gauge NIRVANA !  :P



As you have just discovered ... HO wheels are generally going to look WAY too small for 1:35n2  :f:

You are right, your ^^ photo   (probably due to the wide-angle camera lens) doesn't show just quite how BIGger difference there is either !



If yours were 36" HO passenger truck wheels, they would be in 1:35 scale, a full 5.5" diameter too small for Gilpin Tram 20" wheels.

BUT, it looks like they are probably even smaller regular 33" HO freight car wheels, which would make them over 6.5" too small in 1:35n2  :shocked:



I'm guessing the wheels you have are 9.64mm diameter ...

... to represent the 1:1 Gilpins 20" wheels in 1:35n2, they should be 14.5mm diameter.

So they are almost exactly 5mm too small, or about 6.5" - 7" too small in 1:35n2 scale.  :java:

:brill:


- - - - - - -


Some wheely useful 1:35 scale information :-  ;)


1 : 1  in  1 : 35


24.0"  -  17.4mm  D.& R.G.W. 3' gauge 'Griffin' wheels

20.0"  -  14.5mm  Gilpin Tram 2' gauge truck wheels

17.4"  -  12.7mm  'M.M.M.M.M.& M.Co.' wheels ( On30 24" or OO 'Hornby' Brit. goods wagon type )

14.5"  -  10.51mm  Walthers ( HO 36" ) passenger truck wheels

13.2"  -  9.64mm  Athearn ( HO 33" ) freight truck wheels

11.2"  -  8.18mm  Kadee ( HO 28" ) 'old timey' type smallest wheels


- - - - - - -


Most of my 1:35n2 car builds, are very roughly based around basic dimensions of The Gilpin Tram 2' gauge rolling stock.  L:

Found in the 'Colorado & Southern' Folio of 100 years ago. :old dude:





Their caboose was the widest car that they ran, it was exactly 6' wide ! :thumb:





And 14' long. :pimp:






- - - - - - -


Just to make a quick preemptive STRIKE FORCE ! blubformation attack ...

... your next hurdle to narrow gauge Nirvana (if it isn't already) could well be COUPLERS !  :Salute:





The couplers I use are On3 scale 'San Juan Car Co.' Evolution couplers.

In 1:35 scale these perfectly represent a 3/4-size narrow-gauge coupler.  :thumb:

They are easy to get hold of, pretty darn cheap, work good, are easy to install & look GREAT ! :)





And NO ! the Gilpin Tram DIDN'T use this type of coupler silly.  :us:

You think I didn't know that plastic hadn't been invented yet, back in 1908 !  [whack]



IMHO coupler positioning & height, is by far the most important part of your car build. :thumb:

This particularly influences the position of the bolsters in relation to the cars endbeams.



The bolsters should be as far to the end of the underframe as possible ...

... whilst still allowing for the mounting of the couplers.

This will minimise any unwanted coupler 'overhang'.



Bolster thickness, truck mounting & wheel diameter are ultimately what determine 'coupler height'.

This obviously needs to be TOTALLY consistent on all cars & locos. :cool:

Along with wheels, you really need to have some 'reference couplers' now ... BEFORE you start scratching bodies & underframes.





This diagram ^^ is for 'Kadee' On3 couplers.

I have never seen a similar diagram issued by the 'San Juan Car Co.'



But since their 1:48 scale couplers are compatible with the On3 'Kadee' ones ...

... these dimensions for the 'San Juan Car Co.' Evolution couplers, used in 1:35n2, are OK, and what is good to aim for.



You can also see that 1/2" diameter standard On30 wheels will fit under the car, with 1/8" clearance to the bottom of the underframe.



PHEW !  :boogie:


And NO ! ... I haven't just sat on a pine-cone or something !  ;)

Knowing all this crap & sticking to it ...

... means I can be pretty confident that what I'm building will basically RUN WELL when done ...

... so I can relax  :cool:  & enjoy doing the modelling, without worrying that these basic specs. will trip me up later.  :f:



:java::moose:



Si.




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' Mysterious Moose Mountain ' - 1:35n2 - pt.II
http://www.freerails.com/view_topic.php?id=7318&forum_id=17&page=1

' M:R:W Motor Speedway !!! ' - 1:32 Slotcar Racing Layout
http://www.slotforum.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=59295&st=0&a
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 Posted: Sun Dec 30th, 2018 12:27 am
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Traingeekboy
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Si,

I'm sure all of you guys are likely just sitting back and going "Yep, I went through that phase."

And, "Oh, here he goes trying to figure out people size vs. models."

And "Oh now, he finally got around to the wheel sizes!"

Uh yeah, crapplers...

I actually have several bags of HO scale Kadee #5's... somewhere ?????

I went full circle on a lot of train stuff.
Toy trains... Dreams of amazing scratch built museum pieces in a perfectly rendered scene...
Now, I'm like, Gee I could die before I actually sort of finish a layout.

I agree on the Crapplers being crappy, but The thing that got me going was kind of like what Woodie wrote above:


" Over many years of building things, I have found that I love making my own stuff far more than opening a box and reading instructions."


It's the way I cook!
I know how to make certain things that I learned from my Italian mom.
I can make a million different amazing pasta dishes and soups from near nothing.
I just look at what's there and then make something.

Yet I got to that point by doing.


Just to quote you:

" And NO ! ... I haven't just sat on a pine-cone or something ! ;)

Knowing all this crap & sticking to it ...

... means I can be pretty confident that what I'm building will basically RUN WELL when done ...

... so I can relax :cool: & enjoy doing the modelling, without worrying that these basic specs. will trip me up later. :f: "


Yeah, I get it.
Whatever scale you are in you need to know where to source certain things so you can establish actual standards for your own layout.

I guess, I am working my way through this initial stage of establishing standards for my layout.




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 Posted: Sun Dec 30th, 2018 01:06 am
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Si.
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Hi T.G.B.  :wave:



Don't worry about the "Crapplers being crappy" ...

... I'm allowed to have to oDd leg-pull now & again.



When you finally peel off 2 green-backs from the wad & score 'the real deal' ...

... you'll be going WOW ! these are the $4!7 mmaann ... T :cool: :cool:  C :cool: :cool: L  !


I thought the "Crapplers" were very innovative actually ...  :brill:

... but as Paul Newman said to Steve McQueen in 'Towering Inferno' :-


" These circuit-breakers they've installed aren't even nearly up to what I spec'ed "


& look what happened there !  :f:



" I actually have several bags of HO scale Kadee #5's... somewhere ??? ?? "



Well ... Let's hope you don't find them & spend 2 Bucks on something that looks good & works really well.  :P

Just remember Paul Newman spec'ed 2 Buck circuit-breakers, not those 50 Cent jobs ...

... & don't forget to check the fuse in your power-pack !  ;)



Apart from trucks & couplers, I scratch pretty much everything else & as Woodie says, it is an adventure !



Of course in oDdbAlL railroading scales like 1:55n3 or 1:35n2, there are no 'standards' anyway ...  :us:

... I very much doubt that the NMRA are burning the midnight oil trying to create any either !



The initial stages in 1:35n2 for me, were certainly an adventure, as I discovered what worked for me.

I think what you've made so far, with a bit of 'this & that' can easily be made to work OK in whatever scale you choose.



:moose: :moose: :moose: :moose: :moose:



Si.








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' Mysterious Moose Mountain ' - 1:35n2 - pt.II
http://www.freerails.com/view_topic.php?id=7318&forum_id=17&page=1

' M:R:W Motor Speedway !!! ' - 1:32 Slotcar Racing Layout
http://www.slotforum.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=59295&st=0&a
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