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Modeling 'The Gilpin Tram' - pt.II
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 Posted: Wed Feb 28th, 2018 05:03 am
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Si.
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Hi Kevin :wave:



That looks about 100 :moose: s AWESOME !



You're gonna HAVE to start a New Thread with that great build underway !

Really want to hear more about it & see how you get on.



It would be great to see all the research photos & stuff in a New Thread as well.

You could probably Paste over what you have put here as a start.



Is your model HO scale Kevin ? ... You didn't actually say.



:moose: :moose: :moose: :moose: :moose:



Si.



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 Posted: Wed Feb 28th, 2018 09:51 am
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Monte
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Kevin,
You have hit a home run with, first you muck up. How large a space does the complex fill? I agree Mike’s plans are outstanding. Do you have the complete set of Gilpin Books from Mike.

Very nice creek retaking wall.

Keep sending photos.

Monte



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 Posted: Thu Mar 1st, 2018 07:17 pm
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Kevin Fall
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Thanks guys! I model in HOn3 with HOn3 for the Gilpin tracks for the mill. From end to end the model takes up 3 feet 7 inches or a little over 109 cm for the rest of the world. I will try to post on another thread that I had already started but ended up being in the wrong location because I didn't know what I was doing. I don't have any of the Gilpin books from Mike, just some plans but am relying on reference from the two Gilpin books and Keith's thread.
Kevin

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 Posted: Thu Mar 1st, 2018 08:26 pm
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Ken C
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Kevin

Just a guess, but the tall structure above the mill could have been a transformer building. The H fitting appears to have power lines going to it. From what I've seen of various mill's, the transformer building or yard were usually located away from the main building's.



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 Posted: Thu Mar 1st, 2018 09:02 pm
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Si.
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Hi Guys :wave:



Kevin asked for his original Thread to be moved to a different Forum. :thumb:

So he has a brand-new Thread on his Colorado project HERE :-



Kevins New Colorado In HO Thread



Comments & replies about his project can now be Posted there.

Go check it out ! :cool:



:moose:



Si.



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 Posted: Thu Mar 1st, 2018 09:12 pm
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Keith Pashina
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Hello Kevin,
That is some nice model building you are doing. The Iron City/Penn Mill complex will be very impressive once done.  I think I recognized a Railway Recollections HOn30 Gilpin Tram ore car kit in one of your photos.
You asked about the house-like structure at the top of the mill, next to the railroad ore unloading bins. I couldn't find any information on what it was - the 1895 and 1900 Sunburn Insurance maps don't show this structure. Generally, the GT didn't usually weigh cars of ore (although there are weights given for coal loads and occasional ore loads), so I don't think it was for a scale house. Perhaps related to ore sampling and assaying? Maybe ore loads were sampled during the unloading process? 
At the 2004 Gilpin Railroad Historical Society Convention in Idaho Springs, several members brought models to display. One person showed a partially complete N scale model  - I did not get their name, but took two pictures of it. This model in N scale was impressive - your model in HO will be even more so!




N scale model displayed at 2004 Gilpin Railroad Historical Society convention - builder unknown




N scale model displayed at 2004 Gilpin Railroad Historical Society convention - builder unknown


If anyone knows who the builder of this model is, I'd appreciate hearing about it. There was also a larger scale (1/4"?) wooden model on display at the Gilpin County Historical Society in Central City - a local craft-type model of the Iron City Mill. I last saw this about 20 years ago - I wonder if it is still there?
Keith

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 Posted: Fri Mar 2nd, 2018 04:12 am
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Kevin Fall
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I think Ken's idea of the H fitting on the little building in the back makes sense. A perfect place to attach power wires and looking at a photo in the Sundance book on page 324 shows wires which appear to come out from behind the little building, along the side of the mill and into the building. Don't know why I didn't see that. I've looked at these photos at least 1000 times! Could also be for assaying like Keith said. Since the little building doesn't show up until the 1910 remodeling photos maybe it shows up in later valuation maps?

Nice interior shots of the building which I have never seen. It convinces me not to model the interior which I wasn't planning to do anyway otherwise I would never get anything else done. Also thanks for the color photo of the Fordson. Maybe someone will offer a nonworking model someday! That was a Railway Recollections car you saw minus the trucks. I have 24 of them to build which is more than enough. What I don't have is the trucks. I do seem to remember that there was a guy on Shapeways years ago that used to offer them in HOn30 but doesn't seem to have them now. Perhaps I should drop him an email.
If anyone can answer any more of the questions in my post give it a shot. I'm grateful for any information.

Happy Modeling!
Kevin

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 Posted: Sun Mar 18th, 2018 07:50 am
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Keith Pashina
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A Tour of the Gilpin Tram – Summary
 


Beginning in “Modeling the Gilpin Tram – Part 1”, we began by looking at the start of the Gilpin Tram mainline near the enginehouse, and started heading up Chase Gulch. From there, we wound around Winnebago Hill, and encountered Gunnell Hill, the first of the major ore shipping areas on the Gilpin Tram.



Subsequent posts eventually explored the various mining branches and spurs along the route. One we finished up at the Anchor Mine, we took a lengthy look at Black Hawk. This tour included a look at the roundhouse area, all of the ore mills, the town of Black Hawk, and a lengthy look at the milling practices and machinery used.
 


So, before we go further into a look at modeling Black Hawk, I thought it would be a good idea to summarize what and when we toured the various parts of the Gilpin Tram. Here is a brief recap of our mile-by-mile tour:






SUMMARY OF TOPICS IN MODELING THE GILPIN TRAM – PART 1
 
·       Gilpin Tram Enginehouse to Chase Gulch:  Beginning November 23, 2012 (69th post, Modeling the Gilpin Tram Part 1)
 
·       Tucker Mine and Mill Branch: Beginning November 25, 2012 (84th post, Modeling the Gilpin Tram Part 1)
 
 
·       Winnebago Hill Area: Beginning February 19, 2013 (127th post, Modeling the Gilpin Tram Part 1)
 
·       Eureka and Prosser Gulch Aresa: Beginning April 4, 2013 (203rd post, Modeling the Gilpin Tram Part 1)
 
 
·       Gunnell Hill Mining Area: Beginning August 6, 2013 (272nd post, Modeling the Gilpin Tram Part 1)
 
·       Dogtown & Avon Mill Area (below Nevadaville): Beginning June 1, 2014 (392nd post, Modeling the Gilpin Tram Part 1)
 
 
·       Nevadaville: Beginning June 17, 2014 (406th post, Modeling the Gilpin Tram Part 1)
 
·       Quartz Hill area: Beginning July 25, 2014 (448th post, Modeling the Gilpin Tram Part 1)
 
 
·       Pease-Kansas Branch: Beginning August 14, 2014 (452nd post, Modeling the Gilpin Tram Part 1)
 
·       Phoenix-Burroughs Branch: Beginning October 6, 2014 (463rd post, Modeling the Gilpin Tram Part 1)
 
·       Quartz Hill Branch: Beginning December 4, 2014 (535th post, Modeling the Gilpin Tram Part 1)
 
·       California Mine Branch on Quartz Hill: Beginning January 14, 2015 (557th post, Modeling the Gilpin Tram Part 1)
 
·       Topeka Mill Branch on Quartz Hill: Beginning January 24, 2015 (573rd post, Modeling the Gilpin Tram Part 1)
 
·       Russell Gulch: Beginning March 24, 2015 (646th post, Modeling the Gilpin Tram Part 1)
 
·       Federal Mine: Beginning April 21, 2015 (669th post, Modeling the Gilpin Tram Part 1)
 
·       Old Town – Iron – Pewabic Mines on Pewabic Mountain: Beginning November 25, 2015 (736th post, Modeling the Gilpin Tram Part 1)
 
·       Forfar Mine on Pewabic Mountain: Beginning January 11, 2016 (775th post, Modeling the Gilpin Tram Part 1)
 
·       Frontenac & Aduddell Mines: Beginning February 9, 2016 (783rd post, Modeling the Gilpin Tram Part 1)
 
·       Banta Hill Branch: Beginning March 27, 2016 (826th post, Modeling the Gilpin Tram Part 1)
 
·       Saratoga Mine Branch: Beginning April 23, 2016 (840th post, Modeling the Gilpin Tram Part 1)
 
·       Anchor Mine Branch: Beginning May 10, 2016 (868th post, Modeling the Gilpin Tram Part 1)
 
·       Gilpin Tram Ore Cars: Beginning July 10, 2016 (911th post, Modeling the Gilpin Tram Part 1)
 
·       Considering Black Hawk (as a modeling subject): Beginning August 6, 2016 (923rd post, Modeling the Gilpin Tram Part 1)
 

·       Gilpin Tram Enginehouse Area (in Black Hawk): Beginning August 6, 2016 (925th post, Modeling the Gilpin Tram Part 1)


SUMMARY OF TOPICS IN MODELING THE GILPIN TRAM – PART 2
 
 
·       Gilpin Tram Warming House (in Black Hawk): Beginning September 20, 2016 (8th post, Modeling the Gilpin Tram Part 2)
 
·       Gilpin Tram’s Black Hawk Yard and Wye: Beginning October 5, 2016 (27th post, Modeling the Gilpin Tram Part 2)
 
·       Golden Fleece - Upper Fullerton – and Wheeler Mills: Beginning October 5, 2016 (28th post, Modeling the Gilpin Tram Part 2)
 
·       Hidden Treasure Mill: Beginning October 24, 2016 (38th post, Modeling the Gilpin Tram Part 2)
 
·       Gilpin Tram Abandonment: Beginning January 10, 2017 (72nd post, Modeling the Gilpin Tram Part 2)
 
·       Gold Ore Processing in the Black Hawk Area: Beginning February 12, 2017 (75th post, Modeling the Gilpin Tram Part 2)
 
·       Humphrey and Meade Mills: Beginning May 5, 2017 (100th post, Modeling the Gilpin Tram Part 2)
 
·       Polar Star Mill and Ore Transfer: Beginning September 28, 2017 (159th post, Modeling the Gilpin Tram Part 2)
 
·       Eagle Mill: Beginning September 30, 2017 (167th post, Modeling the Gilpin Tram Part 2)
 
·       Bobtail/Fifty Gold Mines Mill: Beginning October 12, 2017 (173rd post, Modeling the Gilpin Tram Part 2). Also, November 12, 2017, 205th post.
 
·       Black Hawk: Beginning October 31, 2017 (178th post, Modeling the Gilpin Tram Part 2)
 
·       The Gilpin Mill: Beginning November 8, 2017 (200th post, Modeling the Gilpin Tram Part 2)
 
·       Black Hawk Depot Area: Beginning November 11, 2017 (203rd post, Modeling the Gilpin Tram Part 2)
 
·       State Ore Sampler: Beginning November 16, 2017 (215th post, Modeling the Gilpin Tram Part 2)
 
·       Rocky Mountain Concentrator: Beginning November 26, 2017 (217th post, Modeling the Gilpin Tram Part 2)
 
·       New York and Old Gunnell Mills: Beginning December 8, 2017 (229th post, Modeling the Gilpin Tram Part 2)
 
·       Randolph Mill and Chamberlain Sampling Works: Beginning January 18, 2018 (237th post, Modeling the Gilpin Tram Part 2)
 
·       Iron City and Penn Mills: Beginning February 23, 2018 (249th post, Modeling the Gilpin Tram Part 2)
 

I made this listing just to help myself navigate around to where I had put the photos and text, and I hope you find it useful, too.


So, in the pst 5 1/2 years, we have leisurely made a mile-by-mile tour of the Gilpin Tram mainline and branches, and the nearby mines and towns. A lot of sidebars popped along the way, along with some non-Gilpin Tram prototype narrow gauge stuff, and some of my modeling, and the modeling of many of of the readers of this thread.


So, now that I have covered looking at the prototype, where will this thread veer off to next?


Keith

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 Posted: Sun Mar 18th, 2018 08:19 am
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Keith Pashina
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BACK TO MODELING BLACK HAWK IN HOn30


Many posts ago, I started considering how I could go about modeling Black Hawk on my HOn30 layout. 

My layout room measures 10' x 11', and it's convenient to limit the layout to narrow shelves around 3 walls of the room. I could also build on the 4th wall, but then the layout would have to have 2 removable sections at the room entry door and a door to the utility room, so I will probably not go in that direction. 

As you have seen in previous posts, I have already built several narrow shelf sections that depict mining areas, so that I now have six mines on the completed L-shaped section, basically 8' x 8' along two walls.

Black Hawk will occupy the third wall, and sit inside an alcove space measuring 7' long on wall, and 3' long on the other. This space was originally a closet space for a possible bedroom, which became my train layout room instead.

One aspect of model railroading that I enjoy a lot is operating in a prototypical manner. I have settled on using a typical car and waybill system, and have used the traditional paper cards, and a switchless program. 

So, when the layout is "complete", operations will basically be switching industries in Black Hawk, and handing outbound and inbound trains. Other trains will depart and switch the mines, and return with ore loads. The trains going the part of the railroad not modeled will go to a simple fiddle yard at the end of the modeled railroad.

So basically, train operations will be centered on everything arriving and departing from the Black Hawk model area.  Since I have small space, I have to be careful with how the track is laid out so that I can accomplish the switching that I want to do, and at the same time, model some of the major themes I want to be part of Black Hawk.

So, how should I model this?

Mike Blazek summed up the appeal of modeling Black Hawk best, in his Workbook #29 – Black Hawk, he writes, 

Black Hawk offers yards as close to those of any big city as any three footer had to offer. For a mile or so, the railroad followed the North branch of Forks Creek and its canon, and immersed itself on both sides with a grand assortment of mills, associated buildings, stables, stores, saloons, houses and trackages of different elevations. There were narrow and wide mills, long and short mills, mills of stone, corrugated metal and lumber, mills with sloping roofs and flat roofs and abandoned mills with no roofs at all. There were short and long, high and low timber bridges and landmark quality iron bridges…and there was a lot of 3’ trackage as the C&S intertwined with the little and extremely neat Gilpin Tram two foot gauge.


As I previously had posted, the "it would be nice to model" stuff was a lengthy list:


Well, some of the most interesting parts that would be nice to model include:
 
  1. ·       Gilpin Tram enginehouse
  2. ·       The warming house used to thaw ore cars
  3. ·       Downtown store, hotel, and light industry buildings in Black Hawk (this is a huge list of buildings, but I’ll need to pare it down to what I have actual space for)
  4. ·       Dual gauge 2’ (well, actually HOn30) and 3’ gauge (HOn3) trackage
  5. ·       Ore chutes transfer to the C&S
  6. ·       Ore processing mills
  7. ·       Boiler works or machine shop
  8. ·       An ore sampler








 
One source of inspiration was a track plan by Atlas Model Trains, in one of their track plan books. They originally published these to show what can be accomplished using their off-the-shelf track components. One L-shaped plan has always appealed to me:






The track plan above was flipped from the Atlas book, and the more I looked at it, the more it seemed like a good possibility for my Black Hawk model.


So, I laid out the pre-finished wooden artist frames that I use for the modular framework, and marked track locations with a combination of tape and cut-out photocopies of actual HOn30 turnouts.  I deviated from my previous shelf scenes by going to a whopping 18" wide shelf, instead of the "standard" 12" wide. The extra width was needed to accommodate more buildings and track in the busy Black Hawk scene. I had previously built a Polar Star Mill and ore chutes model (in fact, the Narrow Gauge & Short Line Gazette March-April 2018 issue has my article on this model in it). Could I use it on my Black Hawk scene?






Above is the mock-up of Black Hawk, showing possible track arrangements and how the Polar Star Mill and ore chutes would fit into the scene. I could get it to fit, but the track elevation changes to reach the ore trestle were hard to fit into the narrow space - it would work, but it would probably compromise the space and scenes I could build to depict Black Hawk. 


So, I tinkered around some more - very easy to do, since the track is just masking tape and paper, and tried several different combinations. Then, I came up with this arrangement:






This seemed to be more viable. The yellow lines represent where dummy (non-operating) HOn3 track would be laid. I sat and studied this arrangement for some time, mentally working out how trains could be switched, and how the different structures could be modeled.  You can clearly see the similarity to the Atlas track plan #19, the L-shaped track plan previously shown.


This arrangement, like any model track plan, is a series of compromises, to include some key things, but with never enough room for everything I want to model.




Keith





















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 Posted: Sun Mar 18th, 2018 08:40 am
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Keith Pashina
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Is There Gold at the End of the Rainbow?


Well, Mike Pyne and I didn't find any on the day I took this photo up near the Frontenac Mine, but once I worked out a Black Hawk track plan that I liked, construction has been underway!


Like probably everything I do in this hobby, I changed my mind a few times and tweeted and adjusted the track arrangement from the track plan mockup that I showed you in the previous post.

However, after pondering what would really fit and what I absolutely had to have, I came up with this list of major parts of the Black Hawk scene:
  • Enough trackage to switch the trains that would be arriving and departing
  • A wye to turn locomotives
  • The Gilpin Tram engine house
  • Two ore mills
  • A sampling works
  • 5 other industry spots for cars - this includes the interchange with the C&S
  • Some 3' gauge trackage depicting the C&S
  • Space to model some of Black Hawk commercial and residential buildings




Above, a progress photo of Black Hawk - most of the track has been laid down, and switches are being wiring and throw mechanisms added. The wye is behind the train at right




Another progress photo showing trackage being laid. Most track is in place, with the exception of two or three industry spurs.

I was very fortunate to have Mark Wilson give me a partial bundle of Microscale code 55 HOn30 flex track while I was doing my trackplanning- that product has not been manufactured for many years. I also had a few of Atlas' N scale code 55 turnouts lying around, so combining Mark's gift of flex track with the Atlas N scale turnouts, I was able to spike down track work quickly.  The photo above shows the in-progress results.


Keith



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