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Gunslinger_Fur
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Hey all! Gunslinger here again! Adn since I really don't have anything new for my other thread, yet, I'd figure I'd share another project with ya'll! ;)

I am a modeler who has interest in many different scales and guages. Most recently I've discovered On20 and have found it rather enthralling. Persoanlly my prefered scale/gauge of modeling is On30. I was originally going to build a 6-10 On20 layout that has some Disney influence and would focus on Arizona Copper Mining and the primary industry. As much as I'd like to have a full sized On20 layout it's just not in the cards for the time being. So I figured I'd settle for a small 20" gauge tramway to carry the ore from some of the mine to the "Bigger" 30" gauge trains.

However, since my roommate and I have settled on HOn3 for the main layout I needed to shrink my O scaled ambition from 6x10' to 2x8' and make a shelf layout instead. Not that that's a bad thing mind you! The track plan is almost complete and when I can gain access to a scanner I'll be more than happy to post it, but for now all I have are some locomotive concepts I wish to build.

The first loco of interest I have to give credit to the Gila Tramway for its tiny and diminuative Shay locomotives. My rendition however will be a little bit different. I've been "Mentally" building this concept in my head for a while now and I think I know how to achive the end result, which I hope (and pray) will turn out lik this!




Like the Gila Tramway's Shays they will start off as MDC HOn3 shay kits. Then to get the Wagon Top boiler design which I have an affinity for I looked at the Wiseman Model Service's Sn3/Sn42 Shay conversion Kits. They have one with a Wagon Top boiler and I think it would be perfect, proportionally speaking. That's a little trick I learned a while back. Just becuase one model's a specific scale does not mean you can't use parts from another! :moose: As much as I like this Wagon Top Shay I do like "T" Boiler Shays as well and I might build one eventually, however that's still in the air right now.

The primary form of motive power will be of more traditional steam locomotives. Specifically Porters. Most will be of the rather diminuative "Kornut" Porters originally built for 18" gauge, but I think a 20" gauge will fair better. I still don't know exactly how I will build these little steamers, but the end result should look like this... minus Lee Van Cleef though. :P




Not to scale, but it's the look I'm aiming for. I'd like to have 3 or 4 of these little engines to have as the primary part of my On20 loco fleet, but there are two larger porters I'd like to build as well. One of them will be my version of the Coranado Porter.




I figure I can use and abuse a Bachmann On30 Porter and kitbash it into something like what is illustraited above. Now ther is one other Porter I wish to build. It is of freelance design and is an outside frame 0-4-0. It would look similar to ACC #8, but a tad larger and with horizonatal pistons rather than canted ones. The bash was inspired by one I saw on the On20 Yahoo Group that used a Grandt Line 18 Ton Saddle Tank Porter kit. The wheels will be pushed together to 20" gauge so they fit behind the "stock" frame of the model. The cranks will be added so that the main rod and side rods can be applied. I do have a finished drawing of the concept, but alas... the lack of a scanner prevents me from posting it. But I will post it soon. A friend of mine had a scanner and I hope I can use it sometime before next week.

As for the layout itself, it is a humble 2x8ft and also offers a bit of Duel Gauge! :) The layout is an On20/On30 one, with an On30 main line passing right through the middle. One end has a stone 2-Stall engine house, an ash pit, turntable, and other required engine facilities. There are 2 mines that are served by the 20" gauge line which pick up ore and transfer them to the main ore bin which is located next to the On30 R-O-W. The second mine has a small ore bin from which the On20 line serves. In order to get to this mine there are two switch backs I used to gain elevation. It should prove interesting to operate, for I haven't done anything with switch backs before.

Well I hope that I've peaked your interest! I'll post more soon.... hopefully. ^^

Oh! And remember this! "Silence is golden, but :dt: is silver!" :moose:

MinerFortyNiner
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Heh...what's not to love with 20 inch gauge? And switchbacks? Nothing better! I look forward to watching your progress.

I actually took a Bachmann 0-4-0 Porter, regauged the wheels to 20", and ground the frame down to accept the narrowed wheelsets. I haven't figured out how to modify the drivetrain, but it rolls just fine. It can be done!

Last edited on Fri Apr 15th, 2011 01:49 am by MinerFortyNiner

Gunslinger_Fur
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MinerFortyNiner wrote: Heh...what's not to love with 20 inch gauge? And switchbacks? Nothing better! I look forward to watching your progress.

I actually took a Bachmann 0-4-0 Porter, regauged the wheels to 20", and ground the frame down to accept the narrowed wheelsets. I haven't figured out how to modify the drivetrain, but it rolls just fine. It can be done!


I've seen a few bashes that used the Bachmann Porter. Though recently I have considered using the Grandt Line Kit, mostly because it has far greater detail than the Bachmann model! And I'm ALL about details!!! :moose:

Oh! And I'm sorry, I accidentally deleted the Kornut Porter concept drawing by mistake. So here it is for those interested.




Also, colored versions of my concept drawings are under way. I'll post them when I'm able.

Herb Kephart
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Why have so many wheels???




Just think of the minimum radius!!


Herb  :old dude:

W C Greene
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You can't see much of her, but here's a view of the old Mogollon Railway's Porter.



She was built from a Bachmann On30 Porter for the On20 line. The little rascal ran quite well and fit right in with the Shays. This photo was taken about 12 years ago.

                  Woodie

Gunslinger_Fur
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Wow! I actually have a sizable update for you all! :glad:

Not only do I have a track plan... ALMOST finished, but finished enough to post!:)




So this friends is my Ocalla Tramway, some fictional mine tram somewhere in southwestern Arizona. It features an On30 main line passing strait through, but served by the On20 tramway. Also, here are some colored versions of some of the loco concept mentioned in a previous post.




These small Porters will be the primary motive power for the Ocalla Tramway, but there are some larger locos, such as the concpet for the 0-4-0 outside frame Porter I had mentioned based on the Grandt Line kit.




I still have yet to actually draw my version of the "Coranado" Porter, but here is a drawing I stubled across a while back of it.




My version will be of the 0-4-0 configuration and with a headlight. ;)

Also, I'm fiddling around with what kind of buildings and strctures to have on the layout so I've been working on some simple concept sketches.




So that's about it for this post. I hope that I've peaked you interest thus far! :moose:

sledhead
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So what gives bro? You gonna build these things or what man? Love the concepts, let's put some styrene to knife or brass to saw eh?

man7sell
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Any more updates on you layout? Looks like it will be a fun build.

Gunslinger_Fur
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Wow... it's been quite a while since I last logged on here, especially this thread. Talk about a build up of dust and cobwebs. :old dude:

Anyway, again, sorry it's been so long. Unfortunately since my last post life hasn't exactly treated me well. My living situation had become complicated and the bottom fell out financially. However, finally, things are on the rebound and I may actually be able to actually start working on the project! :glad:
Or at least a little at a time.

The Ocalla Tramway has evolved quite a bit since I first started this thread. The small module like design has changed to a 4x8' layout with an On30 interchange. Some of the track placements will be altered at some point, but for the most part this is the "New" Ocalla Tramway.





The idea is to have a layout the is realitively compact layout for home use, as well as to be realitively portable to take to model train shows to promote On20 model railroading. Unfortunately I do not have any clue as to when I'll be able to work on a layout. So sorry, it could be a while before we see any progress with that.

However I will be able to at least work on some of the locomotives and rolling stock. First on my list is a large, outside frame saddle tank Porter. My prototype inspiration came from ACC locos #9 and #10. They were both outside frame 0-4-4 Porters of which I was able to track down some drawings for. Using them I came up with this.





For the most part I have followed the drawings directly. The locomotive has 30" drivers with a 4' wheel base. However the issue I see here, and some of you may see as well, is she looks a little heavy on the back end. The rear driver is nearly in the center of the frame giving the locomotive an unbalanced look. I may alter the design and give the engine of a 4' 6" wheelbase to better ballance the locomotive. However I won't be able to start construction the model until sometime mid october.

I'll be using parts from a Grandt Line 18-ton saddle tank Porter kit. It will take some modifications, but it can be done. Although I am having somewhat of a hard time decerning what kind of motor to get and a gearbox to use for the altered frame. Suggestions are greatly encouraged.

So far that's about it for now. I will post more updates when I am able, and or when something is worth mentioning.

Last edited on Fri Sep 14th, 2012 04:40 pm by Gunslinger_Fur

W C Greene
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I don't know how to do it, but your drawings need to be resized into a smaller format. My laptop can't show all you have drawn without moving the screen over, etc. One thing I will say is that you have way too much track for such a small layout. But then this is just my opinion. Take care.

Woodie

Gunslinger_Fur
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Sorry about the size issue. It should be resolved now. ^^;

As for the "Track" issue, a good portion of it is hidden in tunnels.

mwiz64
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Now there is a neat little railroad. I'm looking forward to seeing how this one shapes up.

ddonley
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Hey Gunslinger, I'm also working on my own On20 project, a porter 0-4-2st. Have I look http://freerails.com/view_topic.php?id=4121&forum_id=6
By the way, I also like your art on Deviantart, cool stuff man :thumb:

UNCLE BOB
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W C Greene wrorote:  "I will say is that you have way too much track for such a small layout. But then this is just my opinion".

Gunslinger, I'm sure you'll love On20! 

But I'll have to agree with Woodie.  Over these MANY years, I think I've learned that less usually IS more, on a model railroad.

There is so much to enjoy; building locomotives and rolling stock, structures, scenery, etc, etc....

As for operation (my thing), I think you'd find running a simple "make-do" layout can be more interesting than one might expect.

(All the above is just the opinion of one 'ole coot and is guaranteed to be fully worth what I charge for it!)

HAVE FUN!!              Uncle Bob :old dude:



Last edited on Sat Sep 15th, 2012 10:25 pm by UNCLE BOB

elminero67
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I may be a bad example as I've never planned anything very well...but I do believe that no matter how much engineering one does in Autocad or on paper (your drawings are really nice), they don't capture how things will work it in the "real" world. You just have to build it.

jtrain
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Do you think you can put an elevation marker next to some of the track so that ground level is '0' while the next level is '4' for 4"? It's probably just me that's having that problem, but it would still be nice. I like the track plan, but I can't sort out what goes where.

The track plan is pretty neat. It would probably take me three months for to figure out what tunnel the train is coming out of next, so it would definatly keep me busy.

Also, sorry to hear about your financial troubles. :sad: At least you say it's coming back. Hopefully our economy will soon follow. :2t:

Overall, I really do like that railroad, even if some think it's a little crowded. Can't wait to see it built!

jtrain
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Herb,

hehe... balloons!! :apl: What if one pops? :shocked:

--James (rolling on floor laughing)

Charley
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fellers..

I have a friend..one...he is  a big fan of 0n18"...he uses the outside frame 2-8-0 's....MDC...?..take out two drivers...a Grandt super structure..Waaaaala....a outside frame 0-4-0 ....in 0 n 18"..says to me  they run like little watches...rolex..hey whot have you..you know...boom times..minting monies..

Charley

Gunslinger_Fur
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Hey all,

First off, one of you had asked about elevation markers. I would add them... But I'm not exactly sure how high it will actually be, from the lowest point of the line to the highest point. (The mine in the upper left corner) The grade will be steep, so the highest point will probably be at least 12" or more.

This track plan represents what I plan on doing and will be revised when I can actually get around to building it. I work better with trial and error methods that I do following a pre-calculated "plan". :brill:
Actually working with my hands really gets my creative juices flowing.

However, until I can actually get to building the layout I may settle just building small single scene dioramas for On20 and On30. (I may even do an On20/On30 dual gauge one)
I'm working on some diorama concepts. I may upload them at a later date, if anyone is interested.

W C Greene
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Howdy, I am interested in concepts, but far more interested in photos of modeling-locos, cars, structures, layouts. Send some photos when you can and have fun building.

Woodie

Gunslinger_Fur
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Oh I shall indeed! :moose:
Though, as previously stated, that probably won't happen until sometime in October. *sighs* :f:

Gunslinger_Fur
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Woo Hoo!!! UPDATES!!!!! :glad:

Finally! I haz updates for you!
Well this past weekend was an absolute BLAST! I had the privileged to help a friend of mine vend at the 3rd annual Myrtle Beach Model Train Show. And as mentioned I FINALLY received my Grandt Line 18 Ton Saddle Tank Porter kit!

It's one of the older kits from the early 80's and has self quartering drivers. however upon inspecting the drive wheels I did come across an issue. For one of the rear drivers the crankpin has broken off and I don't think I can repair it without having issues with the drive train. Somewhat of a big set back. I've been reading the instructions and looking at the various parts to see exactly what I'll need to do to build an On20 porter from it. I've contacted Grandt Line in regards to getting replacement drivers a few weeks ago, but I was informed that only the lead drivers are in stock and no rear drivers. I emailed them earlier today to see if the stocking status has changed. And if it hasn't then I asked if I could have a special order made. I'm still waiting for their reply.

Also, as I've looked though the kit, its parts and drawings and comparing them to those of the 20" gauge outside frame porters; I may end up using less parts from the kit than originally anticipated. The end beams will have to be modified in both height and width, frame modifications. (Well maybe, I'm debating on whether to keep the scale 5' wheel base or shorten it to 4'6") A new cab is to be built, new, smaller boiler (36" diameter) saddle tank modifications, and a whole slue of other things. I'm also still trying to locate a suitable motor and gear set for the bash.

The axles and driver rims need so good cleaning as they are tarnished and possibly have some slight rust that needs removal. This is going to be a more in depth bash that originally anticipated, but I like a good challenge.

Also I'm wondering about other frame modifications. Whether I'll need to widen it or not to compensate for 20" gauge. I'm hoping I can assemble the frame as intended for 3' gauge and that the re-gauged drivers and axles with still fit with an unmodified frame.

Also upon closer inspection of the frame some of the main frame pieces have a slight warp to them. I hope that won't be an issue.

W C Greene
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From what I understand, this is a "used" kit and came without motor/gearbox-right? Grandt made the kits long ago and the parts are probably hard to find now. The driver may be out of the question since the dies may not be available and just for one set of driver centers...well, you know. Since you want to build an outside frame loco, how about contacting BACHMANN about possibly buying OF drivers that go to their On30 Forney or maybe the OF 4-4-0. Just a thought. Motor & gears? I might get a Grandt 2:1 crossbox coupled to a gearhead motor like MICRO LOCO MOTION has. That would be similar to the original parts. You want to shorten the frame? Man, you are a glutton for punishment and may regret messing with the frame for a mere 6" (1/8"). But it's your project. Good luck and keep us posted.

Woodie

Charley
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AJ, fellers..

I talked to David Hoffman...he of Missouri..he has a million old MDC parts..He is trading as some company..{ anybody ..?..he does HOn3' and 30" stuff..}..



These  probably include some driver sets for their { MDC }...HO n 3'..outside frame lokey..a mikado...type..apparently these driver sets are very adequate for 0n20"....under a Porter they may be quite nice..and negate the need to use the grandt line drivers issued with the kit..

Gunslinger_Fur
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Charley wrote:
AJ, fellers..

I talked to David Hoffman...he of Missouri..he has a million old MDC parts..He is trading as some company..{ anybody ..?..he does HOn3' and 30" stuff..}..



TheseĀ  probably include some driver sets for their { MDC }...HO n 3'..outside frame lokey..a mikado...type..apparently these driver sets are very adequate for 0n20"....under a Porter they may be quite nice..and negate the need to use the grandt line drivers issued with the kit..


Although this doesn't exactly pertain to my current project, I'm ALWAYS looking for old MDC Parts!! HO and HOn3! I wouldn't mind getting in contact with this fellow to see what he has available. :moose:

Charley
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AJ, fellers

He said.."over a million parts..." like 1 . 3 millions..bought from Athern...anybody know how to get aholt of 'em..?..

Charley
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AJ , fellers..

OKOKOKOKO..googledem...he is only snail mail enabled..

David M. Hoffman
8682 U.S. Hwy 61 North
Woodville, MS 39669-3502

Doin bidness as "Bald one locomotive works"



W C Greene
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Charley, he needs larger wheels than the MDC ones and also, they need to not have counterweights but just spokes or maybe plain dished wheels would work also. Maybe you know Mr. Hoffman but a couple of HOn30 guys I know have written him several letters asking about his castings...and he hasn't answered any of them!
SAY-LA-VEE...or some such..

Woodie

Charley
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Woodrow , fellers..

I had slipped into my help everybody cape and mask..having promised self I would stop doing that..

I don't know David Hoffman from Adam..{ Hoffman..?}...but did meet and talk to him last week..

So I guess..everybody takes their chances..and throws the dices..{ di..}..

Sawr a neat Railway bridge today..this one in Cotter Arkansas...


Gunslinger_Fur
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Well it certainly has been a while, once again. Sorry about that. Due to some sudden, unexcpected circumstances I am preparing to move to Georgia on the 18th of Nov. It's all good though! :bg:

Anyher... I've finally had the time to brake out the ole' camera and snap a few photos of the Grandt kit I recently recieved. It should do well for being starting point for my On20 bash. As I recall stating in my last post I had come across a few issues that may complicat this project. One ov the main issues being a broken crank on one of the rear drive wheels. The other issue being slightly bent frames.







Sorry for the fuzzyness, but I think you can see the bend in this frame piece. The other frame piece also has a slight bend to it, but it's barely noticeable. Whereas this piece is much more evident. The next few photos show the basic frame assembly as per the insructions, loose fitted together.


This one shows the obvious skew the frame has from the bend frame pieces.


This photo is taken from the rear looking forward. The front pilot beam is resting at level and this also shows the skewing.

Once I add the boiler and new body shell the skewing may be rectified, however I'm worried that the bent frames may still cause binding with the drive train. :us: Anyone know how to possibly flatten/straiten the frames without damaging them? L:

Moving on, my On20 porter is to be a blend between Arizona Copper Co. locos 9 and 10 along with Detroit Copper Co.'s outside frame porters. (The numbers of the engines elludes me at present) As such I will be using a smaller boiler than the one supplied with the kit. Here's a photo of the supplied boiler with some alternative "boilers" I was able to acquire.


Again, sorry for the fuzzyness. The supplied boiler with the kit is at the fare left. The middle and right tubes are from coupon and recipt rolls from the printers at the store I presently work at.


Here are the "Alternative" boilers I have. Both would serve my purposes well, but each have their pros and cons. The black one is slightly smaller and measuring an almost exact scale 36" in diameter. It's also longer than the white tube. However its surface is not smooth and the internal support strcture would make it difficult to fit anything inside of it, not to mention a motor. It would require a styrene sheet wrapper to pretty it up a bit. As for the white tube it is closer to 37" to 38" scale inches in diameter and it has a smooth surface, which will make it easier to work with as a boiler. Also the inside is much more accomodating for a motor or whatever else I could fit in it. Whether it be wiring or other electronics. The trade off is that it's short. So I would most liekly have to splice two of them together to make a half decent boiler. In either case I will use PSC brass smoke box fronts and number plates.

Well that's about it for this update and it might be a while till I can post another one, due to the move. But at lease you guys get to actually see some "progress"! As little as it may be. :moose:

Charley
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GF , Woodrow , fellers...

I am reading threads..I want to comment upon spaghetti bowls..less is more..

The real artsy dudes...advocate ....a coupla tracks..wending..{ hey..thatsa word..}.

.All of the modelling without the total time / energy / enthusiam sap of building a switching yard..

Really a bit of foam..some more foam for buildings...a bit of tracks..waaaa laaa....a module worthy of shewing..portable..set it on a  desktop..{ analog..}..there you have it..


Charley
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A. J . fellers...

Now ..thinking outside the box..it is important..to be able to have space to build a bit or railroad..

I propose...1:35th..n 2"...yessir..A bachman dizzle..OR..the Porter..which is no out of print.....?..that a question fellers..?....:sad:

These are the motive power thing solved..all of the fun..W/O the milling of frames..quartering of drivers..rods..grease cups..in yer cups..over the cups..etc..etc..:Crazy:

I have built several of Grandt Porters. which  ran well ...this  is the acid test..NOT ALL ran..it is a major effort ..but it can be done..

That said..I wouldn't do it again..un less I just wanted a mantle piece model..


And this is why i am talking up 1:35th n 2' now so much..even with track powa...{ Woodie...shhhhhhh }...it can be done..up and running..in no time atall..the fun..without the ditch digging aspect..of building each iota..and quarks..like duck sounds like  a duck..etc etc..



Gunslinger_Fur
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There's a reason why I chose On20. One, because I will have an On30 layout of which I would like to have a tramway. Second, I'm a glutton for punishment when it comes to building models. ^^;

Gunslinger_Fur
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Hey all, sorry for dropping off the grid again. Unfortunately I've had a string of bad luck the past few months. I had to go to the hospital for a while. So that put a damper on my modeling for a while. Then while working on the my On20 Porter bash I completely deformed the side frames in an attempt to straiten/flatten them. Fortunately I was able to acquire some replacement parts and I should receive them shortly within the next week.

I know it's been a while, but thank you for watching this thread.

ddonley
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Sorry to hear about going to the hospital, and that the frame deformed. Hope that things get better, can't wait to see some photos of the model.

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Right now my main focus is to get at least a rolling chassis going. I'm still hunting for detail parts and such for the bash.

Although I do have my eyes set on an HOn3 MDC shay kit. If I can get it I'll convert it to an On20 shay.

Gunslinger_Fur
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PROGRESS!!!! :glad:

Well sort of. :moose: The other day my new wheel sets and new frame parts for my Porter bash FINALLY came in!! HUZZAH!!! I haven't gotten to fiddle with it quite yet, but at the same time I'm hesitant to do anything because I have yet to acquire suitable motor and gear box for the locomotive.

However I was able to work on the first peice of rolling stock for the Ocalla Tramway!! A little Bobber Caboose made from an old LGB Gnomy toy. I'll post some pics when I get the chance! :2t:

ddonley
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hmm, LGB Gnomy toy, I didn't even know about it until know, lol.

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Well, as promised, here are some photos of the Caboose Bash.



Here are some shots of each end of the caboose. The doors were scavenged from a Bachmann On30 Passenger Car. The steps, platforms, railings/endsills are from a B'mann On30 caboose.


This photo shows all the primary components of the frame and chassis. The wheels/chassis are, obviosly, a B'mann passenger car truck. The pin on the truck was cut off using flush cutters. Then I drilled a hole through the frame and passenger truck. The end platforms, steps, ect... were cut off from a B'mann caboose frame and attatched to the original Gnomy toy frame using plastic welder.



I'm also planning on adding a detailed interior and here is a photo of my "Wood" floor. I made the floor using a piece of cardstock, scribed with an Xacto knife. Then I stained the cardstock with a woodstain marker and then given a few applications of a lite blackwash. This was an experiment I tried due to the inability of finding a propper scale floor. I think the end results are fairly impressive.


Here are the rest of the interior components for the caboose. All of which were scavenged from the Bachmann On30 one. The two cabinets on the left are to be wall mounted. The stove was also from the bachmann model, but it is nowhere near as detailed or realistic as I would like. So it will be replaced by a Grandt Line D&RGW Caboose Stove kit.


Here is a rough "dry" fit of the interior components. The larger wall mount cabinet is to be mounted between the windows on the same side of the caboose as the stove is located. The other, smaller cabinet will be mounted in the corner directly next to the stove. I also plan on fabricating a sink/washbasin to place near or under the window there. Other details will be a fold away desk and a chair for the conductor or train cewmen to sit in while on the run.

As for painting I intend on coloring the caboose red. The roof will be a tarpaper roof painted black, though I'm not sure what to do for the interior color(s). I'm open to sugestions.

Also, I must note that at present the caboose is technically On30. However I plan on narrowing the gauge to On20 for my Ocalla Tramway.

So, YES!!! There is actual progress afoot!! :moose:

ddonley
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Very cool! I like the cardstock floor, I think I will keep that modeling technique in mind for whenever I may need it. :thumb:

Last edited on Fri Feb 22nd, 2013 12:08 am by ddonley

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Nice bobber A.J.

Just the job, Bob !

Cheers.

Si.

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Wow... once again I have let the cobwebs and dust build in this old thread. A simple apology isn't enough if you ask me.

I think must of us can understand that circumstances in life can keep us from doing things and unfortunately that's the case with the Ocalla Tramway. I'm not going to go into detail, but the past few months have not been all that great for me. However I have just moved to Florida a week ago and hopefully things will start looking up for me. And hopefully for the Ocalla Tramway as well! However I may not be able to build the 4x8 plan as proposed. I may downsize it to a 2x4' or 2x6 plan, until I have the resources to build a 4x8.

Though it will still be a while before I can work on some serious modeling. Most, if not all, my hobby tools and supplies are still in GA. Although I do hope I can get them down here soon. In the mean time I want to experiment with a few small micro or modular track plans with the above dimensions.

It isn't much, a little depressing, but that's what I have for now. Hopefully I can show some real progress of the Ocalla Tramway soon. Take care and thanks for staying tuned!

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A.J. Nicely done. I too like how you did the flooring. As for an interior colour ... my vote is for a cream or a light green.

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Is the Gnomyboose going to be 20 or 30 inch gauge? I'm going to be following that build closely. I'm really interested in doing some Gnomy bashes (once I can find some gnomys!)

Gunslinger_Fur
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Marsh_Creek wrote:
Is the Gnomyboose going to be 20 or 30 inch gauge? I'm going to be following that build closely. I'm really interested in doing some Gnomy bashes (once I can find some gnomys!)

Gnomy cars and engines tend to pop up on ebay every so often, so keep an eye out there.

As for the interior color I've used "concrete" as an off white color to use. It doesn't look half bad and regrettably I don't have any photos to show of it right now.

As for the gauge... I'm debating on that actually. It fits remarkably well with On30 equipment and the cars is slightly wider than I would prefer for On20. I try to keep all my 20" gauge equipment no wider than a scale 6 feet. I think the Gnomy caboose is close to 6.5 to 7 feet, if I recall correctly.

W C Greene
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It's a shame that Daniel Caso's FCLAV laser models is no longer in business...he offered several "On18" cars that worked nicely on On20. I have a couple of his passenger coaches and some box cars and a stock car.

Woodie

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Here's one of Daniel's On20 (On18) box cars.  It has one end platform and has run many miles on the Gila Tram.

Woodie

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The more I think about the more I'm set on keeping the Gnomy caboose On30. Now I do have two other of the Gnomy Cabeese so I may try to narrow one of them for On20.

As for other rolling stock I'm really drawn to Cache Creek Scale Models' line of 2 axle 10' car kits. The cars are 6 scale feet wide, which is perfect for On20.

They have a wonderful work/freight caboose kit:
http://loggingcars.com/bin/ON30C10-a.jpg

As well as a box car and "wood chip hopper", which would make a fantastic ore car!
http://loggingcars.com/bin/on30wch10_1.jpg
http://loggingcars.com/bin/on30bx10-b.jpg

Gunslinger_Fur
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Well I've got another update for the Ocalla Tramway. I've finally acquired an MDC HOn3 shay kit! The unfortunate part is that I won't be able to start working on it until some time in December. It's being sent to my old address, fortunately a friend lives there and he plans on visiting me in December, so he's going to bring the kit down with him.

I had worked with one of the MDC Shay kits before, a 2-Truck shay specifically. I have some experience with the kits, but not much. That being said I'm always open for help, tips, and advice. Which I would very much like to have with this kit. I've bought some of the replacement gears and such, but does anyone have any advise aside of the NWSL gears?

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Hey all! I have a little bit of news. It's not much, but worth mentioning.

This week I finally acquired a Wiseman Model Services Sn3 conversion kit for the MDC shay! Components of the kit will be used to aid in building an On20 shay with a wagon top boiler. Sadly I still need to get my hobby supplies and tools from my last residence. Still working on moving my worldly possession. So I can't quite start working on the locomotive yet. But stay tuned and I'll post pictures of the Wiseman kit when I can.

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OH MY GOD!!! CAN IT BE!? YES!! IT IS AN ACTUAL UPDATE WITH REAL LOCOMOTIVE CONSTRUCTION PROGRESS!!!1! :glad::glad::glad:
It must be a sign of the apocalypse. (hopefully not)

Yes, at long last I have finally started construction of my proposed On20 shay. A while back I had acquired an MDC HOn3 3-truck shay kit and a Wiseman Model Services Sn3 scale conversion kit (for the MDC shay) to aid in the build, along with a few extra parts and still many to acquire. Here is a view of the model as it is currently.



And here's another with an O scale figure to give a general idea how small it actually is.



More detail and additional photos can be found here on my Blog.
http://theocallatramway.blogspot.com/2014/01/back-on-track.html

I know it's been an eternity, but I hope it's been worth the wait!

W C Greene
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Glory be! That's going to be a great looking lokie. Just be sure to get the mechanism working right before getting it all together...but then it's your loco and do it the way you want. I have built several of these over the years and currently have one On20 Shay on my little Gila Tram layout which has 15 years and many real miles on her and continues to run great. Have fun and keep us posted.

Woodie

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Thanks very much and I've had a load of fun working on the model. Though I've had my share of frustrations to along the way. I may need to get a new cylinder casting from WMS, the one I have doesn't seem to match what the conversion kit instructions describe.

My biggest worry is the gearbox and the lead truck side frame. Jeff Johnston's book has been an immense help with working on the model. I have all the NWSL upgrades, aside from a new motor. I'm still looking to find one that's suitable, but still fairly small.

The gears in the gear box seem to turn fairly freely, but I think they could still use some work. I've thought about using s toothpaste method to help smooth them out, but I'm not sure how effective that would be on brass gears.

Gunslinger_Fur
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More updates, YES!!!

Well I've been fiddling with the shay for the past few days in my spare time between daily errands. I have made some progress though, I was able to work out the bind in a part of the cosmetic drive train and fixed the "running" side of the side frames to the trucks. I also ground off the pins that limit how far the trucks can swivel to maximize (or rather minimize) the minimum track radius. My goal is to get the engine to operate on a 9" radius curve as a set minimum.

I then turned my attention to the engine cylinders. I'm wondering if the S scale 2-Cylinder shay engine casting from WMS (Wiseman Model Services) may have been defective as it doesn't match the look and assembly description in the Sn3 conversion kit instructions. I originally intended to call Mr. Wiseman up and see if I could get a replacement, but then I elected to see if I could make it work regardless. I cut off the cylinders with a razor saw and placed the parts on my parts box. (I may be able to use them for another build) I then mocked everything up on the model and set it on the track and took some photos. Though when I did I happened to notice something...

As you can see the I think I have a bit of a clearance issue here. I didn't account for the additional thickness of the WMS casting along with the original plastic part. I've already started working on remedying the problem and I will post pictures shortly. I'll also see if I can modify things to make this a proper 2-Cylinder engine and drive line. Until then I have a few other pictures that I think you will enjoy.

On a whim I elected to pose the say together along with my O scale reference figure, which I have now randomly dubbed "Fred".

Although the caboose fits proportionally, it's actually too wide for me to use for On20, by about a scale foot or so. I decided to have a set Loading Gauge for my On20 models that will make constructing future models a bit easier. In short, I've made some On20 guide lines. The set width I've chosen is 6 scale feet. This width was decided on because of the Arizona Copper Co.'s locos #9 and 10. Both were BIG, for 20" gauge, 0-4-4 types built by H.K. Porter and were the larges engines used on the ACC's 20" gauge network. They may possibly have been the largest 20" gauge engines ever built also! But I don't know that for sure. Anyway, due to that bit of prototype inspiration all my current and future On20 equipment will be no wider than 6 scale feet.

Here's another view of my little Gnomy bobber bash with "Fred" to give an idea of just how small this little caboose is.

Here's one more view of the shay, this time right from the front. The model is sitting on a length of Micro Engineering HO/HOn3 code 70 flex track. The Ocalla Tramway will use code 55 rail, but my On30 Big Thunder & Western will use code 70. When I have the opportunity to actually build a substantial layout I very much plan on having some dual gauge trackage to have fun with. And again, Fred stands next to my little shay as a size reference.

I'm loving how this locomotive is turning out so far! It's going to be an adorable little steamer when she's done! Well that's about it for now, but stay tuned because more is on the way!

W C Greene
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AJ-looking great! On the 9" radius...with some work, you should be able to get her around. I am running 10" radius on my Gila Tram exhibition layout and although #4 hunkers around them, she stays on track. You will need to work on the drive train to the trucks, the universals will need to be reworked. I used NWSL universal parts and made up the "dog bone" shafts using wire & their ball joints. You will also need to wire the trucks' pickups with some fine flex wire...the stock pickup system is crap anyway. Also, you might need to slightly modify the sliding box shafts also. But you will get there. Good luck.

Woodie

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W C Greene wrote:
AJ-looking great! On the 9" radius...with some work, you should be able to get her around. I am running 10" radius on my Gila Tram exhibition layout and although #4 hunkers around them, she stays on track. You will need to work on the drive train to the trucks, the universals will need to be reworked. I used NWSL universal parts and made up the "dog bone" shafts using wire & their ball joints. You will also need to wire the trucks' pickups with some fine flex wire...the stock pickup system is crap anyway. Also, you might need to slightly modify the sliding box shafts also. But you will get there. Good luck.

Woodie


Thanks Woodie! I acquired all the NWSL upgrades aside from a new motor. I also have the MDC Shay Handbook which has been a HUGE help as well! However I've come across a new challenge. I have yet to post pictures, but I was able to modify the engine assembly not only to have proper clearance over the rails, but also to have a more accurate 2 cylinder arrangement.

I had to drill some new mounting holes in the frame to mode the cylinders and crank shaft assembly a little further forward. However on left hand turns, the telescoping parts of the universal shaft are pulled so far apart that the section "Drops Out". Which would not be a good thing when operating.

I think the problem can be remedied by replacing the square metal tubing with identical tubing, but cut to a longer length. And in a way that wouldn't hinder the cosmetic drive line when making a right hand turn. The problem there is I don't know where I could go to find such tubing, nor what "kind" it is so as to search it on the internet. The closest hobby shop is a Hobby Lobby and their selection with anything railroad related is well... "limited" to say the least.

As it stands I still have a locomotive that will run on a strait-a-way decently (once I have a motor and electronics set up) as well as BROAD curves. In the mean time I may focus more on the aesthetics of the locomotive and details. Or fiddle with my neglected On20 porter project.

And speaking of Porters, I had some inspiration a while back for a squat and chunky mining loco inspired by the "Wallis". A 20" gauge mine engine, built by Baldwin, that ran in California prior to the existence of the Arizona 20" gauge.

I had acquired a Bachmann N scale/gauge 0-4-0 with the intend on turning into a more traditional On18 or On20 Porter... but given it's small size I've recently decided to make it into a mine loco. Here is a pen sketch I made (I didn't have any pencils or drafting pens at the time to make it like my other works) of the general idea for the design. For some odd reason it reminds me of a potato so I've named it "Spud".

The other possible option is to make a small compressed air locomotive similar to this.

I may widen the gauge of the chassis for HOn3/On20, or I may keep in N gauge so I can have an 18" gauge engine to work some of the individual mines. Again, these are just ideas and feedback is greatly welcomed!

Sorry for such a long winded reply. But I'll post more current pics of the shay shortly. :moose:

W C Greene
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AJ, is there any way way that you could increase the radii to 10" or so? Lengthing the square shaft works OK going left but right it causes interference and it took some fiddling and cussing to get 10" out of the driveline. The hollow sq shaft material is from K&S, I forget which size but they have it. As it is, the shafts have to be almost ready to come apart to get the tight curves. Be prepared to do some work but it CAN be done.

Woodie

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W C Greene wrote:
AJ, is there any way way that you could increase the radii to 10" or so? Lengthing the square shaft works OK going left but right it causes interference and it took some fiddling and cussing to get 10" out of the driveline. The hollow sq shaft material is from K&S, I forget which size but they have it. As it is, the shafts have to be almost ready to come apart to get the tight curves. Be prepared to do some work but it CAN be done.

Woodie


The tightest curve on my track plan is 9", but I may be able to enlarge it to 10". I wish I had a means of making a full scale mock up to fiddle around with that. I've recently turned my attention to working on a Porter or two. I need to find some 1/2" OD piping or tubing for the "Spud", along with some styrene sheet for the cab and water tank.

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Hey all, sorry it's been a while since my last update.

Unfortunately I don't have much to show, but I still think it will suite your interest! As I'm waiting to get replacement parts for my shay I decided to mock up a paper cab to get an idea of proportions and overall appearance.



Pardon for the poor focus in the photo. I drew out the cab in scale on 1/4" graph paper, but done in a way that would allow the cab to be cut out and folded into a mock-up pattern. Once the drawings were done I made a copy of the drawings on heavy printer paper and then colored the drawings by hand with markers. Once the paper was dry I carefully cut out the drawings and then scored certain edges to help when folding the mock-up.



It has surprised me how similar this project is turning out to look like my original concept I drew a few years ago when I first conceived this project! Here is a side view of the locomotive as it looks presently and there drawing will be below it for comparison.




The resemblance is pretty uncanny for a drawing not done to scale, wouldn't you agree? Also as a note I've decided to forego the use of the supplied tender tank(s) from the MDC kit and I'll be using an AHM/Rivarossi Old Time 4-4-0 tender shell for the tank. It's shorter in height than I'd like and not as wide, but I think it will work perfectly for the look I'm going for and it saves me from having to fabricate my own tender flare. Not to sound lazy or anything.

Anyway, thanks for dropping by and stay tuned. As always there will be more to come! Thanks for watching!

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Hello once again, sorry it's been a while. I recently updated the blog on my tramway and I've only just now gotten to update my forum threads. First up.... A Humble Potato.

Okay, I have to admit the title for this one is a bit wierd... but it fits the name of this locomotive I have in progress. This post is about a small mining Porter I came up with while on a trip to Indiana. I was in a class room and I started a VERY rough pen sketch for a mining locomotive inspired by the "Wallis", which some of you other 20" gauge aficionados may know well. It was a small 20" gauge locomotive built by Baldwin and worked at one of the gold mines somewhere in California.



As some of you may or may not know, I tend to have an eye for things that stand out and are odd in the world of railroading. Whether it be narrow, broad, or standard gauge. I loved the chunky and squat proportions of the Wallis and with that inspiration scratched together this concept. Though I prefer the Porter "label" rather than Baldwin. (With no offense to Baldwin fans)



And so I present to you, my humble "Spud". So name because its squat and compact proportions remind me of a potato! I have made some O scale drawings for the model and when I can get a scanner up and running I'll post them here along with a few other things.

For a while I've been debating on whether I should keep this locomotive N gauge and use it on On18 mine tunnels and addits, or to make everything 20" gauge and widen the mechanism to On20. I'm leaning more towards On20... but I'm still questioning what to do. I'm open to thoughts and suggestions.
As for the mechanism itself, I'm using a Bachmann N scale 0-4-0 chassis I picked up from a model train show in Myrtle Beach, SC. It was quite a bargain and it ran very well! Despite some of the things I've heard about the chassis.

Almost nothing of the original locomotive, aside from the chassis, will be left. I'll be replacing the cylinders with a set of old Kemtron HOn3 C-16 cylinders a friend of mine is sending to aid in me in this particular project. Again, thanks Matt!

The boiler I'm fashioning out of 1/2" OD brass tube and the rest I intend to make out of styrene sheet. Here are some shots of the eventual "boiler".





For the front, I'm thinking about ordering the 25.5" diameter smokebox front offered by Coronado Scale Models. Seeing as this tube would be 2 scale feet in diameter it should look just about right. And I can get a headlamp from wither Grandt Line of from Wiseman Scale Models.

However, the problem I'm having is, for one, I haven't found any places locally where I can get the stuff. There's a Hobby Lobby, but I'm not certain if they carry it at this location. Second, without being able to look at the stuff I'm not sure what the best sheet thicknesses would be to fabricate the tank, cab, and other details. I figure once I have the cab walls made that I can use wire or metal rod for the roof supports. Anyway, here are some current photos of the Spud.





It's not a whole lot, more text than anything, but it's something in addition to my shay. Which is progressing nicely.

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Well thankfully what I thought to be a junked shay kit came in the other day. I found the kit on ebay, and what was described as an incomplete kit turned out to be just the opposite! All that was really missing were the instructions. This was a huge blessing on my little Ocalla Shay, as it was a 2-truck kit, so I won't have to make the awful surgery i was going to have to do with the three truck kit. Though I will have to drill a few new holes so I can mount the shay engine in a more ideal position and optimize the locomotive's tight turning radius. Along with a multitude of parts to salvage from. Although I do feel a slight hint of guilt considering how increasingly rare these kits are becoming. I hope that one day SOMEONE will begin reproducing the MDC Shay kits. Despite their cantankerous reputations, they're extremely fun and I've gotten many hours of pleasure from working with them.

Not too long ago I was able to get an AHM old time 4-4-0 tender shell. I cut the shell in two, right behind the tool boxes. After test fitting everything on the new 2 truck frame here is what the outcome was, shy of the engine and line shafts.






As you can see the locomotive is REALLY starting to come together! Even if the cab is a mock up made out of paper. Though there is one thing that concerns me just a bit. With the mock up cab in place as well as the tender, the back of the tank is actually resting atop the end beam. I'm really liking the cab dimentions... but if I shorten the tank, I think it will look too short proportionally. Though I could alter the cab dimensions and shorten it by 3 to 6 scale inches. I'm just not totally sure what to do there, but I'll think of something. The issue is hard to see in these photos, but the side view below will give a better illustration.




As can also bee seen, I've been lazy and have yet to fix the "Off Side" of the truck frames to the trucks. My focus has been to get the line shafts to turn freely under push power alone and reduce as much binding as possible. The reach ruck still needs a little work, but turns fairly easy. just not easy enough yet. I still have quite a ways to go, but at least the shay is starting to look like a respectable locomotive! Thanks for tuning in, and there's more to come!

FrankS
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Hi WCG,
I'm a new builder in On18 and I'm eagerly gathering as much info as possible. I've been lucky enough to acquire some of Daniel's FCALV On18 stock.
In post # 47 of this epic you showed a photo of one of his vans on top of a book of photos.
I guess that the book was about the prototype line. Could you please give me some info on the book and where I might obtain a copy.
Any help much appreciated,
Thank You,
Frank Savery,
in Tasmania

Marty Johnston
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Hi Frank,
I can help you with the info. The book is page 17 of the Finescale Railroader 2004 Logging, Mining & Industrial Annual. They show up on ebay from time to time.
Cheers,
Marty J
http://www.NarrowGaugeChaos.com


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