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elminero67
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Happy holidays everyone: Thought Id start a thread on my half finished(and half assed) Torres y Prietas narrow gauge railroad set in the 1940's somewhere down on the border. I started this project with mucho enthusiasm a few years back, but didnt finish anything-so last week I put two sections together and am trying to get trains running again, and complete the half finished portions before I start new projects. I don't have new photos of the T y P RR as the management doesnt think much of reporters, photographers, or government safety officers.

 

 poking TThe Ojuela Bridge spans a 4' deep canyon, and was made by the same folks that brought us the Tacoma Narrows bridge.


Not much has changed at the company town of La Colorada in the last few years. Need to finish details and whatnot as some residents have complained that their houses have no doors or windows...

W C Greene
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Duane-just fantastic scenes! I'll bet the Porter's crew has their eyes closed while creeping across the canyon. And those ore cars and caboose look to be familiar...I can't quite place them...Hmmmm...

You mention that the La Colorada residents have complained about lack of windows & doors...the folks on the hill above Mogollon have the same problem. Must be that they have something to keep them occupied like Su Dinero Cantina.

                                           Outlaw troublemaker

Last edited on Fri Dec 17th, 2010 10:13 pm by W C Greene

wclm
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Looks really cool, hopefully it does not swing like the Tacoma bridge.

                                                                                 Clif K

elminero67
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A couple of more old pics: The first shows the Roebling suspension bridge from further away. I wanted to see if I could make a functional suspension bridge, and the prototype fit in my theme of relatively light mining trains. Unfortunately, it is high maintenance as the T y P has been permanently banished to the garage by the majority stock holder (wife). With the difference in temp and humidity, the bridge is constantly buckling or pulling apart. Underneath the workbench the main cables are held by turnbuckles, while all of the smaller vertical stays have teeny weeny .090 nuts that are adjustable for finer tuning: These can be seen in the second pic. If I do keep the bridge i need to find a better way to attach the .090 nuts to the main wires and fix the approaches as I didnt account for the upward pull of the cables and there is a considerable hyump at each end.

[code][/code]

elminero67
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Woodie-the T y P doesnt have a Bloated Goat, there is a cantina on the ridge above the La Colorda station. The "El Sol" cantina, like most of the towns buildings, are plaster mock ups that will be replaced eventually...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v233/elminero67/100_0370.jpg

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elminero67


Great looking layout !!!! I read your article in the On30 Annual several times and wonder how the bridge was held together. How many workers paid the price crossing that "BRIDGE" !!!!.

Ronnie D.:cb:

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Thats some pretty cool scenic work.  I think I recall seeing you post some of the under construction shots of that canyon pass some time ago (mainly spray painted with a fairly "untraditional" colour pallete to start with from memory, but served to put down the good depth of colour for the final ones).  The bridge makes for a awesome display of some dangerous railroading practices.  Its a shame to hear about the climate issues with the delicate nature of the model.  I hope you can find a good solution the stabilise things becasue I think its a very good piece of character modelling.  I also think the hot and harsh looking shadows in the photos (one of the pleasures of outdoor phototgraphy) contribute really well to setting the location for these models too.

Thanks for showing it again.

Dan Pickard

elminero67
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Thanks for the comments. So far I havent lost any rolling stock or locos, but my spanking new Davenport nearly became the first victim-need to finish the handrail!  Heres a pic of the prototype: It had a narrow gauge mining tram and still stands in the state of Durango. If you like living La Vida Loca, ( I promise no more Ricky Martin refences in this thread)You can even mountain bike the route of the former narrow gauge:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wApenDWfAj4

W C Greene
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Duane-GROOVY!

                     Woodie

elminero67
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So far so good-the pictures give the illusion of a relatively complete layout, but it has never been a truly operational layout. Ive been waffling over remote control or dcc, but have not commited to either, so basically the small yard has never been operational, and even with the yard the operation consisted of a loop and a couple of turnouts. In the meantime, I had a relatively complete section of layout taking up a corner of the garage that had never been operated. It was built several years ago for a modular group, unfortunately, everyone else flaked out. So the challenge is to integrate "Cerveza Mesa" with the Ojuela Bridge and Silver City Smelter sections into one, operational layout:



"Cervaza Mesa" earned its name from a pecular rock formation at the top of the ridge the has puzzled geologists and archaeologists for years:



 

 

elminero67
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Placing the two sections together shows some of the problems-they were never intended to go together. The lighting in the garage is minimal, so excuse the quality of the construction pics: By this time I had already started using the "fine adjustment tool" (sawzall) to remove a part of the cliffs on the canyon to match them to Cevaza Mesa. Underneath the Mesa i am building storage and a bookshelf. Perhaps if I make it nice enough the wife will encourage me to put in inside the house:bg:



 

elminero67
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Here you can see one of my engineering booboos: The hump at the entry of the bridge has caused alot of coupler issues, not to mention an unrealistic bump. I need to find a way to pull the ends of the bridge downward, as the vertical cables pull it up, causing the hump. I'm hoping a couple of anchor cables, like the prototype will work...

 

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After a little more persuasion with the Fine Adjustment Toll (FAT), the transition between the two modules is starting to look a little better:

 



Im thinking I need to take a little more off the top of the mountain on the right:


Last edited on Sat Dec 18th, 2010 11:45 pm by elminero67

Herb Kephart
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Duane;

What form of motive power did the prototype use crossing the bridge?

It's a wonder that they didn't build some form of moving cable with hoppers attached.

Or was the chief engineer thinking of future model railroaders when the decided on a bridge with track on it?


Herb  :old dude:

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Duane,

Its a dramatically stunning piece of scenery work.  The rockwork and the backscene are very well done, and the clean finish of the framing underneath gives it a very profesional look.  I'd be more than happy to run a display piece like that across the backwall of my entertaining room.  With the opportunity to incorporate a bit of furniture into the piece as well (with the bookcase ends) makes it functional as well as artistic.

I do look forward to seeing how this pans out.

Cheers,

Dan Pickard

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This is something a bit different, keep at it

Don

elminero67
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The backside of the mesa section required liberal use of the Fine Adjustment Tool: This section was intended to have a backdrop. In order to make it work with the other module I needed to remove nearly half of the mountain to make room for a small yard. The local residents will be in an uproar when they find out that the railroad will be turning this 18th Century Spanish Colonial church into an engine house & shops!   

 


Last edited on Sun Dec 19th, 2010 03:37 am by elminero67

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Duane,

Again Outstanding little layout !!!! keep up the great work, Can't wait to see how it all comes together.

Ronnie D.:cb:

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Duane,

this is an outstanding module,

the rock work is first rate.

Is there a tutoral that you

posted when you first started

this, I would love to learn your

technique for coloring the rocks.

Carl

elminero67
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Herb-IIRC the bridge was built on a slight slope so that the loaded cars rolled on their own accross the bridge to the mill. The empties were hauled back to the mine (the adit opened at the other side of the bridge) -In short it is a little stretch to use full size motive power on the model version... as a footnote, there were a couple of other railroad/suspension bridges built by Roebling, most notably the one at Niagra Falls built in 1886 that was rated at 350 tons.

elminero67
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Dont know the location/date for this pic: it was on ebay and said "Rice Canyon." My guess is a pre OSHA timeframe...

 


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Back to "vacation in the garage:" did a mock up with styrofoam to see how the company mining camp will lay out:

 

 



 


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Spectacular! Duane-it's really looking great. I see what you mean about the little Porter going "over the hump" onto the bridge. Of course, you have the hump modeled, the bridge wouldn't be without it.

                                  Woodie

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Looking good.

I see you are having a White Christmas.

Don

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Strange but plaster and styrofoam do make a white xmas. I just looked at my last post and could see in the picture that the retaining walls where the houses will be are a touch too big. I used the Fine Adjustment Tool to take of a bit and cut into the hillside...


Last edited on Thu Dec 23rd, 2010 03:09 am by elminero67

elminero67
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Carl: Here is a link to a tutorial for coloring the rock I did on another website a while back:

http://www.railroad-line.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=27832&whichpage=1&SearchTerms=module

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Great link, Duane!

I would have never thought to use rattle cans for the colors-

but then, it wouldn't have looked as good if I had done it!

Herb:old dude:

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The whole thing is way cool!!!!!!!!  I see something new each time I open it. How about a little info on the church or misson structure or some more pics of it. Again really great stuff.

                                                                                   Clif K

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Clif-the church is a model of the Tumacacori Mission before it was "restored.'  It is located just north of Nogales, AZ:

http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.planetware.com/i/photo/tumacacori-national-monument-tumacacori-az0123.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.planetware.com/picture/tumacacori-tumacacori-national-monument-us-az0123.htm&usg=__gFv0XxDNU4QrNBM7Rwmzoux-5OI=&h=377&w=500&sz=233&hl=en&start=0&zoom=1&tbnid=7ZdLCkrSdDqZdM:&tbnh=115&tbnw=179&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dtumacacori%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DN%26rlz%3D1R2IRFC_enUS392%26biw%3D1345%26bih%3D544%26tbs%3Disch:11%2C0&um=1&itbs=1&iact=hc&vpx=287&vpy=94&dur=234&hovh=195&hovw=259&tx=103&ty=114&ei=tsMTTeXKNIm6sQPumOW5Ag&oei=UsMTTb7nBJCisAPw2LmDCg&esq=26&page=1&ndsp=23&ved=1t:429,r:1,s:0&biw=1345&bih=544

 

 

Lunchtime update:  Before I started carving the first house wall I cut off a little more from the top of as I didnt want retaining walls to take over the scene. I also thought Id experiment: In a few highly visible areas I will try to stack small sections of the wall piece by piece to see how it looks. 

 



Last edited on Thu Dec 23rd, 2010 08:50 pm by elminero67

elminero67
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Merry Xmas to all!

It took three cups of liquid love (coffee) to finish the carving, but now it is almost ready for painting. I built up the rock outcroppings a bit too to continue the "theme." The last retaining walls I did came out looking a little flat, so I wanted to try to make them look more like these in this thread:

http://freerails.com/view_topic.php?id=2112&forum_id=11&highlight=retaining+walls

I'm a little disappointed that Woodie hasnt given me a hard time for the wires hanging off the switch...


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Duane-I thought those wires were "details" and would be installed later! She's coming along nicely...

                MERRY CHRISTMAS

                           Woodie

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Simply looks great...:thumb::thumb::thumb:
a place inside the house would be well deserved... ;)

Michael

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Had time for a little more "vacation in the garage:" Spent most of the day smashing my fingers while trying to cobble together a pile of used flextrack and broken switches into a curved stub switch:




Also did some experimenting with washes for the retaining walls:


W C Greene
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Duane-MUI EXCELLENTE! I really dig that crossover, it makes me want to put one in somewhere on my layout. The coloring looks just right, I know what you are aiming for. A curved stub switch? Man, you got some guts!

                                       Woodrow

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Duane,

I agree with Woodie !!!! Love the crossing track work !!! what talent :2t: !!! And great looking rock work too.

Regards: Ronnie D.:cb:

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After almost a month of trying to get the mountain and retaining walls roughed in I can finally start working on the fun stuff, although I still dont have a plan set in concrete for the placement of the buildings other than the ore bin. The habitation flats (archy term) will have board and batten bunkhouses on them. I havent figured out exactly where the boilers/compressor mechanical room will be, but Im leaning on putting it in the location where the partially completed building is as I can use a tall stack to hide the end of the backdrop. I also need to figure out where to put a small station/loading dock-O scale buildings tend to fill up the empty spaces quickly.



 



 


elminero67
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Haven't had much time for the railroad the last few weeks-but I was digging through my Mogollon archives and think I may have come across a vintage photo of Woodie!: Keep digging Woodie-there's gold in them thar hills!


elminero67
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Sorry Woodie-couldnt help it. Here is another photo from the same group of photos I just acquired of Mogollon showing the original Cooney stamp mill. When I was a young (read dumbass) buck I went up to this mill and found a big case of #8 detonators at an abandoned mine. I forgot all about them and left them in the back of my old jeep, a few years later my mother was cleaning out her shed and found them-she was not happy with me!

 

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Hey-it DOES look like me! Cool photo which I will download and carry in my pocket...OK George? (spoken like Lenny)...Hmmm. Neat photos, That Cooney mill would make a dandy model...maybe with another 6 to 8 feet of foam and track, I can..who knows..

                        Woodie                           

elminero67
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I had never seen a decent pic of the Cooney Mill before this one-interesting that they built it right in the streambed on a canyon know for flash floods. Im convinced that this was the same location as the "Lost Adam's Diggings" gold mine described in Frank Dobies book, Apache Gold and Yaqui Silver.

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Duane, great progress on the layout, I really like the road snaking up behind the ore bin and the retaining walls. This is already a great looking scene, and I look forward to watching you put your finishing touches on it.

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Thanks Vern-Progress has slowed for the time being as I am trying to cram in 17 hours of graduate level classes to finish a Master's in Historic Preservation. So yeah, I'll be working at Starbucks next year...(contact me offline if you want free stirring sticks)

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This morning I dismantled the suspension bridge. It was just time for a change. Now I have to come up with a new solution to span the nearly 6' wide canyon-Any ideas? Keep in mind that the management is cheap!

 

Last edited on Sun Feb 20th, 2011 08:38 pm by elminero67

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elminero67 wrote: This morning I dismantled the suspension bridge. It was just time for a change. Now I have to come up with a new solution to span the nearly 6' wide canyon-Any ideas? Keep in mind that the management is cheap!

 

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v233/elminero67/1248.jpg

 


elminero67
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I like that-I could probably find some H.O. girders and fabricate the rest. Does anyone have an idea of how far a girder could span and still carry light trains? Looks like I would need to span at least 36-40 inches for the main span. 

elminero67
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Dwayne-Is that in Northern AZ? Looks a little like one on the AT & SF on its old Prescott Line, or the Canyon Diablo. This one is similar but doesnt have the variation in girder size and has more complex supports-I think I like yours better:

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On a previous project I looked into girder bridges very similar to that. They are a bit pricey, but Micro Engineering offers a full line of girder kits, extensions, and steel towers in a handful of scales: http://www.microengineering.com/products_br.htm

Every time I see that bridge type I'm always reminded of Malcolm Furlow's "Crazy Horse Bridge" on the San Juan Central (http://www.polyweb.com/dans_rr/NarrowGauge2004/images/sjc014_98.jpg). If it's any help, in the book he builds that bridge by cutting plywood to the shape of the bridge, very similar to cookie-cutter style subroadbed, then affixes the girder plates to the plywood.

Last edited on Sun Feb 20th, 2011 09:01 pm by titus

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The older photo certainly isn't Canyon Diablo, but the bridge is of similar construction to the original bridge built there. I agree, spindly would look better.

The central gorge should probably be covered by one span, which could use HO viaduct side girders laminated to a plywood roadbed. When flash floods hit, any supports in that defile would probably be washed out.

Assuming it's about 24" across the deepest part of the canyon, you are talking more than 90 scale feet. While spans that long would usually have a girder arch support, perhaps double towers on each end with heavier side girders would look 'spindly' and yet provide 'high probability' of supporting the little trains.

I need to construct a similar bridge for my high line to cross Burro Canyon, in three spans via a light steel viaduct. I plan to use the Micro Engineering products for it.

Duane...was that heavy span on the Morenci Southern?

Last edited on Sun Feb 20th, 2011 09:34 pm by MinerFortyNiner

Herb Kephart
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36" is 144' in 1/48

Even with the lightest loading (10000# driver loading, cars 1000#/ft), a plate girder would have to be overly deep to carry the load at that span.

The beam in itself would be heavy enough to  pose a problem getting cranes of sufficient capacity to set the beam.

The shorter span sections of the bridge would have to be designed heavy enough to support the cranes, and the beam.

On a beam of that size, the weight of the beam itself would be a large amount of the total bridge carrying capacity.

The middle span would be more likely built as an inverted truss deck girder- with trusses 14-16' deep---still a spindly looking bridge.

Just don't expect me to walk across it.


Herb  :old dude:

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No idea where the bridge is located. I type "railroad bridge" into Google and it was one of a few images that popped up. :P

A friend of mine who is into large scale had a simple, inexpensive way to build a steel girder bridge. He used a 2x4 for the entire span. Then he added plexiglass to the sides. To that he attached L shaped pieces of channel to replicate the bracing. Painted the whole shebang black and propped it on spindly supports. Had it not been for him telling me how it was actually I wouldn've gone to thinking that he built it like a real bridge.

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Good tips! Ideally, Id love to find something like this for the main span, with shorter girders on each side. Ive searched the internet ad nauseam but have not found a kit that looks remotely like this. Lots of European looking stuff or higher end stuff that I cant afford. BTW, Vern that is the bridge on the Nacozari RR, built by the Wisconsin Bridge Co in 1913 to replace the original wooden span, which I suspect was burned during the Revolution.

 


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So, Duane, there you have it. What was wrong with the suspension bridge anyway? As for structure loading capabilities, remember the SC trestle at MP9...nobody would believe that one if there wasn't a photo of it. Have fun!

                                     Woodie

I JUST THOUGHT OF THIS...check out the aerial tramway on the Mich. Cal. lumber co across the American river. Sure, only one car/loco could be ferried across at a time...but what an operation!

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Woodie: It was just time for something new. The bridge sagged in the summer when it was over 100 in the garage, and pulled tight and buckled when cold, popping off the wood parts.

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Yes, that is exactly what I was referring to for that long central span. You could scratch that yourself from ME HO girders and it would be a real showpiece!

As an added operational treat when it's done, try this suggestion: I always have crews blow the whistle when approaching Burro Canyon, as sure as shootin' some locals will be using the bridge for quick passage...sometimes including pack animals! I have never seen a mule or burro win in a head-to-head engagement with an iron horse! However, it would make a great photo to see an ore train paused on the bridge in front of a stubborn pack train that got caught on the bridge.

elminero67
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Vern-your idea about the string of mules reminds me of a story a friend I had who worked on the Arizona Eastern told me: The engineers rounded a corner to find a rather large cow stuck midway accross a trestle: It seems that the heifer tried to cross the trestle, but her legs fell between the ties, rendering her unable to move. The Arizona Eastern which runs from Bowie AZ to Globe, only manages about 10-15mph. Unfortunately for the cow the engineer was unable to stop the train, leaving quite a mess on both trestle and loco...

elminero67
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Sad news from Mogollon: I was in Mogollon last week visiting family and took the afternoon to hike up to the Little Fanny company town above Mogollon. Rumor in Mogollon is that the EPA is suing the mining company that owns the company town, and is going to do one of their "clean-ups." In the past EPA cleanups usually mean removing all historic features. I will make a few calls/emails to see if this is the case, but in the meantime I'll post a few pics of the company town as it stands: There are about 20 structures left

 

 

 



 



 



 




 

 

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elminero67 wrote:
Vern-your idea about the string of mules reminds me of a story a friend I had who worked on the Arizona Eastern told me: The engineers rounded a corner to find a rather large cow stuck midway accross a trestle: It seems that the heifer tried to cross the trestle, but her legs fell between the ties, rendering her unable to move. The Arizona Eastern which runs from Bowie AZ to Globe, only manages about 10-15mph. Unfortunately for the cow the engineer was unable to stop the train, leaving quite a mess on both trestle and loco...

I would guess that isn't uncommon, especially considering the frequency (or should I say lack of frequency) of trains on the AE. As much as I like a good steak now and then and always thought PETA stood for People Enjoying Tasty Animals, I'll refrain from any attempts of bovine trestle humor. The plight of that animal was unfortunate indeed.

I remember seeing a video of the Alaska Railroad where their problem was caribou getting on long bridges or deep cuts, where they could not outrun the trains. It must be somewhat depressing for the crews to witness that.

In my own little miniature world, I prefer to think of the lazy prospectors with pack mules who want to get to the cold beer in town fast, taking their chances over the bridge. Fortunately, my little trains are noisy and slow, and so far the prospectors have avoided getting trapped on the bridge...

:cb:

Last edited on Fri Apr 1st, 2011 06:47 am by MinerFortyNiner

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Progress has been slow while I'm trying to finish my thesis, but looking at Verns Sonora Estrella Grande gave me the inspiration to step away from the computer for an hour ar two, and work on the mesa behind the Kino Mission:



This is far as I made it before I ran out of plaster. For this side of the layout the mountains will be rather plain and undetailed as they are more of a setting. I'm sure Woodies sharp eyes will pick up the antenea on the Shay, which is undergoing surgery to look like the Gilpin SC PA & M #1 as she was in Silver City. Yes that is bondo.



When I did this model of the Tumamcacori Mission, I was on a tight timeframe as it was for an architecture class, and the facade came out a little crooked. Since I made molds for it I should be able to fix it.



From this angle it looks like I still have to do some forming before the final plastering. Im hoping to use the repetitive form of the mesa to give the feel of distance.

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It's great to see some work progressing, Duane...that scene will be dramatic with its depth, and the contrast of the mission to the steep mesa.

The mission is quite impressive...please post more photos. I wonder if it would look straight after a few margaritas? Seriously, if you have the molds perhaps another pour is in order...and perhaps a few more to sell on ebay. Anyway, I did a double-take when I first saw it...who moved Tumacacori???

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I think I may have to invent a Shay powered dust blower for the T & P, as the dust is getting thick these days...I have been assembling bits and pieces to build the new bridge-what does everyone think of the proportions/form?



 


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Wow, that will be some arch when completed...very impressive. Your 1:48 passengers shouldn't look down!

I'm glad you are able to do this without impacting much of your amazing scenery. What is that structure on the hilltop? It appears to be a smaller rendition of Tumacacori perhaps?

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Good eye-that was an early attempt at modelling Tumacacori

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Boy that is a spectacular bridge. Glad your able to resurrect it. It fits very well. The proportions look fine.
                                                                                Clif K

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Duane, Thats going to be a stunning scene when it is finished!


Herb  :old dude:

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WOW! That bridge will be something! Be sure to send out a pop car to check the rails before running trains over each day! I doubt much would survive a trip to the canyon floor.

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Thanks Sledhead, btw, whats a pop car?

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I guess that's the term the old tymers used for speeders. I guess it's because the old one cylinder IC engine would produce a pronounced "pop-pop-pop" exhaust.

Last edited on Mon May 16th, 2011 01:58 am by sledhead

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gotcha. I think I actually have one that would make a good guinea pig when the time comes.

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Getting a little closer to getting trains running! These things take time when the head engineer evidently cant read a level.... I'm thinking about shortening the girder approach as it kinda competes with the arch span. Also, what does everyone think of the silver paint? Im not loving it but dont know what color would look right: 




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Looking good! Regarding the long plate girder section, it appears as long as the arch section. Is a second arch prohibitive? I am sure it would be a lot more work, and not essential. You might consider adding a bent at the center of the plate girder span to visually accent the greater span of the arch. Just some thoughts from a non-engineer who isn't very experienced building bridges.

Silver says Feather River Canyon to me...although the D&RGW had some silver bridges. Somehow, black bridges seem to fit the desert scenery better in my mind for some reason...with some rust patina, of course.

It's always a treat to see your canyon scenery, Duane, even when under construction. Good luck on the progress!

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I "second" the second bent idea. That seems like a great (and easy) way to make the arch stand out and look more essential. The bents are quite spindly, so another one would not appear superfluous.

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Vern/Sledhead: Thanks for the input. I took your advice on the second bent idea: I also cut the girder down an inch so it doesnt compete with the arch.

 

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Or black?

(Will be weathered either way)

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You already know my preference...I hope your little people don't look down when they cross the canyon!

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Definitely black!!!


Herb :old dude:

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I agree, black it is! Of course with a healthy dose of sun peeled paint with rusty petina. Vern-what is your rust secret? your porters dont just have the right color, but the right texture. didnt you reveal your secrets in the On30 Annual?

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I had a rusty, crusty finish tutorial on my former website design, I will post it on my site and provide a link. It just takes a little patience and a variety of rattle cans, not hard to pull off.

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I created a step-by-step posting of the technique I use on my website, follow the link below:

http://members.cox.net/vgniner/workbench/Rusty/rusty.html

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This is just one way, many have great techniques that differ...

:cb:

Last edited on Mon May 30th, 2011 07:13 am by MinerFortyNiner

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Thanks Vern!

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My pleasure...bear in mind that bridges are typically maintained better, e.g. they are painted to protect their value and ensure their long service life. In the desert, the bridges I have seen have had traces of rust on the black or silver paint, but not advanced rust. I am sure what you come up with will look great, Duane.

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It still looks scary as hell.  But all kidding aside, it looks like it will be a great structure when finished.  Maybe you could add a walkway for the pack mules. LOL

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Heh...good idea Mopman!

Duane, how would a 'no smoking' sign be lettered south of the border - 'no se fumar' or 'sin fumar'?

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Vern-Not a bad idea, wouldnt want a fire to cause all of the drama going on at the Lobato Trestle in NM to be repeated on the T y P. The canyon reminds me of fighting fire with the usfs. Seemed like we were always sent to some desolate godforbidden canyon when it was 105 outside and told to "dig line" directly up a canyon wall-the things we did when were you young!

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Duane-I just have to let you know how much I dig what you're doing. Excellent work and truly amazing scenery. Old Malcom Tudball ain't got nothing on you!

                                  Woodie

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Thanks for the kind words and support. I always appreciate feedback as to what others think looks good and what doesnt, as it is hard to be objective about your own work. Feel like Ive been going backwards as every time I start doing one thing, I notice other details or scenery that doesnt look up to snuff. Case in point: While working on the bridge I keep noticing ways I could improve the canyon. I ended up reforming part of the canyon wall to try and make it look a little more realistic, and also to try and force the perspective a bit with a repeating pattern that gets smaller and less detailed. I also minimized the foundations for the bridge so that they don't detract from the scale of the canyon, and replaced the rock foundations with more period correct concrete:

 



 

 

 

 

 

 

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Duane, that is going to look awesome...your scenery work is very inspiring. Woodie said it best, as usual...Malcom Tudball don't just tip his hat to you, he takes it off in your presence!

BTW, I just worked up some sheets of decals for my E&SG and affiliated roads, and I couldn't resist adding a bit of flavor from south of the border...I included a few decals for CCC Co. S.A. and FC. de Torres Y Prietas locos that were 'purchased second hand' by the E&SG and haven't been relettered yet. They will end up on a few Grandt Line Porter kits that I will get to someday.

Last edited on Thu Jun 2nd, 2011 04:11 pm by MinerFortyNiner

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How did you do your decals?

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I don't have them yet, I sent a Word 2003 file to Jeff Damerst with Shawmut Car Shops to get three sheets of custom decals for my little E&SG, plus the connecting Arroyo Verde & Western R.R. and the Estrella Copper Company. I can't wait to see the results. I'll let you know how they turn out!

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Had family over all day yesterday-what better excuse to hide out in the garage! In the previous version of the canyon I used the Woodland Scenics water stuff. Looked like pee. This time I used clear casting resin over a painted basin, I think it looks better:

 



  

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Looks good! I heard similar criticisms regarding WS water. That stuff is bad news.

I am taking notes, Duane, for when I model my Burro Canyon. There will be a bit of water from springs up in the mountains, and some green (mesquite trees, grass and reeds) along the water course.

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Second attempt: for some reason the pics disappeared: Sneak preview of "prototype" saguaro cactus- Im still tyring to figure out arms and needles.

 



 
 




 

Last edited on Sat Jun 4th, 2011 03:41 am by elminero67

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Duane--

FANTASTIC !!



Herb  :old dude:

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Think I've got vertigo just looking at those pictures.....

:thumb:

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Might as well jump on the bandwagon with Woodie and Vern, both of them recently built Saguaro cactus. They are tough-These as the better ones that I came up with-the others will be quietly discarded. Saguaros are deceptively simple, yet if the proportion, color and texture aint right, they look like the background to Wily Coyote & Roadrunner- not what I was going for. I can see from the photograph that some are a touch too girthy:



 

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It's great to see the Sonoran Desert greening up, Duane! Your scenery is amazing, excellent forced perspective. Is that a steer lounging by the roadbed?

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MinerFortyNiner wrote: It's great to see the Sonoran Desert greening up, Duane! Your scenery is amazing, excellent forced perspective. Is that a steer lounging by the roadbed?
Im not sure if it is a steer or a bull. He would have to stand up to be certain???

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Your bridge really reminded me of this one, the scenery is very similar, minus the saguaros.  It's a different construction all together, but the mood is very similar.


Last edited on Fri Jun 17th, 2011 11:23 am by sledhead

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Duane-I think the cactus look great! Carry on.

                     Woodie

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Sledhead: Where is that shot at? Looks like the Colorado River but I cant place the abandoned bridge...

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It's actually in Iraq. The area it's located looks and feels a lot like some areas of the American Southwest. Lots of low dry rocky mountains and sandy eroded valley. This particular line linked a gravel and rock quarry in the town of Miqdadiyah with Baquba. One of the branches of the old roadbed ran right into our base, I think the British built it but I'm not sure. We used to store our waste oil in one of the old boxcars.

The river flowed through a rocky canyon much like the one you've modeled, I think the railroad only crossed the Diyala river once, but there were a couple other neat bridges crossing tributary canyons. The Diyala is the river in the background.

Last edited on Sat Jun 18th, 2011 02:11 am by sledhead

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Since OSHA showed up after seeing pictures of the new bridge, T y P management has been stingy issuing passes or allowing photographers on company property, but I was able to sneak a few pictures (with really bad lighting) of progress at Tumacacari:




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Looking good, Duane...the saguaros and vegetation really give it life. Are those tubleweeds scattered around the mission entrance? Looks like the mission has fallen into disuse, or you've had a recent dust storm! The little passenger train is perfect.

OSHA has no jurisdiction in La Frontera, tell them to take a flying leap off the bridge if they don't like it. We don't need no steenking permits!

:mex:

Last edited on Mon Jun 20th, 2011 12:44 am by MinerFortyNiner

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:thumb:

You need a model of the Willys pickup behind your layout climbing up the mesa.

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Dwayne-It might be more prototypical if the Willys was broken down...

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Well... since you mentioned at the beginning of this thread that the T y P was set in the '40s... and the Willys PU came out in '47... you're model can be a new, running version. :)

The full size model in your garage is another story. :sad:

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Excellent Duane. I think that now I need an old adobe church somewhere. I can't do one as big & impressive as yours, but will find one I like. Thanks for the inspiration.

               Woodie

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Thanks Woodie-if you need pics or ideas, I have quite a few pics of Missions and churchs, also the HABS website has some good ones. Im thinking something Baroque would fit in well with your theme

Dwayne-thanks for the idea, Ive ordered a 1/43 Willys pickup for the T&P-the real Willys Overland also offered a four door wagon for conversion to a hi-rail vehicle-thats the Willys that I want to restore, and I'm offering a one-million peso reward if someone can find one!

Im still struggling with the saguaros and other vegetation, although the tumbleweeds were a good find. The paint was wet on the saguaros when I took those pics so the shine has toned down and they look better, but the colors are still off. Also need to figure out the other Sonoran desert plants like prickly pears, century plants and ocotillos. The other bushes and shrubs Im not too particular about-ask a cowboy to name the shrubs in the southwest and they will claim there are only two species-"rabbitbrush" and "horsebrush." Horsebrush refers to anything a cow or horse will eat, and rabbitbrush anything that they won't.

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One of the reasons Im hesistant to post pics is that the lighting in my garage is horrible and just doesnt cut it for duplicating the sun baked desert. The photos just look like poo. In a few weeks I'll roll the whole setup (it has roller wheels and rolls outside easily) outdoors and take photographs using natural light. Im also toying with doing a Youtube video for kicks and giggles, but I still have alot of work to do on the mining town area. Here is the same scene in natural light, cant wait to see it in natural light with a backdrop!


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Love the rock work out of the foam. How exactly do you do it, just a toothpick and some foam?

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I come from a long line of really cheap peoples. Everything in this scene is painted plaster over recycled foam liberated from a construction dumpster. As for 'how," I'm not a huge fan of "how to build" books or magazines because I think the cool part of the hobby is finding out what technique and materials work for you rather than a step by step rehash of what worked for someone else

Last edited on Tue Jun 21st, 2011 12:20 am by elminero67

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I also hail from a frugal clan. The 'Sinagua' lost tribe of the Southwestern US were named for 'no water'. I'm a 'Sindinero', translating 'no cash'...

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well if you won't tell me how to make at least could you tell me what kind of foam you used?

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Tate, he told you--"recycled foam from a construction dumpster"


Herb  :old dude:

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Yes, it was free foam. That is a secret type of extruded/expanded cell 25PSI polystyrene/styrofoam derivative that is used in government buildings. Normal folks can buy it for $25K per 4 by 8 sheet from government contractors. Is that enough information?

                             Outlaw

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Not enough information--what colors does it come in?


Herbie  :old dude:

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I could tell you...but then I would have to kill you...

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♪ Mamas, don't let your kids grow up to be model railroaders... ♫

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Watch out...Duane might get horsey with his thread being hijacked! He's one mean....(watch your mouth)...
Woodie

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Tate- I didnt mean to sound impatient, but (soapbox with patriot music of your choice fading in) model railroading isnt about purchasing everything ready to run or having or others telling you the easy way to build things or what is cool or not cool, its about  figuring what you like then finding a way to get there with the skills and resources you have. You'll make tons of mistakes along the way, but that's the best way to learn. The path you take to get there is what makes it yours.

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Tate, what the hombres are trying to say is there's as many ways of building scenery as there are model railroaders (not including the armchair guys). Duane and I model the same basic region, yet we use very different techniques to create our scenery. Duane (if I recall correctly) uses a lot of plaster which he carves by hand, and natural dirt/gravel. I use carved beadboard styrofoam, which I work with a hot wire tool, a knife and wire brush. My shelving benchwork would not support a heavier method like Duane's very well. I then fill and add texture using spackling compound, because I use very little and am too lazy to mix plaster. Other guys will make excellent scenery using rock castings.

I am currently working on a major scenery project and am in the process of putting together a short tutorial on how I carve styrofoam rock for my website. I'll ping you when it's published if you are interested.

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Duane, just for curiosity... L: last night was reading your article in the 2009 Annual... what happened with the old swing bridge that appeared in those pics?

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Lucus-I decided to change it a while back, almost have the new one completed.

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I for one would love to see more pix of the town and your structures...that On30 Annual article was too short!

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Thanks-Chris Lane, who puts the ON30 Annual together is a good guy to work with, and I really enjoyed doing it. I look back at that article and realize how much my modeling has grown in just a few years, mostly from making mistakes! Ill be rebuilding the town of La Colorada at some point to bring it up, meanwhile dust and paint are flying! The new bridge is up and running and the new mining camp is almost ready to start shipping ore. Saguaros, creosote and ocotillos are a-growing, rocks are...well whatever rocks do they are a-doing!. Im still leaning towards doing a Youtube video-though I may still sibmit the new improved T y P for publication. Thoughts or preferences?

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The rocks are a rockin'?

Publication or Youtube? Both! It's great to hear you have more time for the layout, Duane. Your article in Light Iron Digest with your scenery was very impressive...it held a position of honor in my 'commodius library' (pun intended) so I could refer to it often. That's meant as a compliment, as lesser works are relegated to the coffee table where they tend to gather dust. Then your On30 Annual article appeared and your canyon scenery blew me away. It's great to see another modeler as crazy about the Sonoran - perhaps even more so - than I am. Then there's Woodie, who might fit the crazy description as well, despite the fact he models the highlands of New Mexico. ;o)

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Day 167. Dementia sets in. The sickness deepens. This weekend my wife and I went out to ride one of the most remote and wild sections of the Applegate/Lassen trail in Nevada. Ghost towns, mines- the type of stuff I use to live for. We got to stay in a cabin built by Tenesee Earl Ford. Should have been great, but all I wanted to do was get home and work on my trains!

Anyways, when I got back home started where I left off, stuck. I'm trying to throw a collection of mining camp buildings from Jerome, Mogollon, Pinos Altos and other southwestern camps into one credible 20th Century mining camp.

From a composition standpoint, its been a challenge. The layout wasn't designed with photography in mind, but this part of the hobby is starting to appeal to me more. Originally I had planned a row of two-story businesses next to the track on the left, but when I mocked it up it made photographing the trains difficult. This shot shows it with only the corner building, also will put another building lower right when I find the right building: 



This angle shows some of the other composition problems: namely the road leads the eye directly to the break in the backdrop! A second challenge is the fact that for much of the layout the track is too close to the edge to allow photographs:


elminero67
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This angle I changed the location of the cabin and tried to place a headframe to provide a visual break where the road leads into the backdrop break. I think in the end I may have to extend the backdrop, although it will be alot of work and involve the sawzall.



This shot also shows the alternative location of the cabin. Im not sure the headframe is working-it was one of the first models I built and after sitting on a shelf for years still cannot find the right location. May have to sit some more:

Im still stuck on how to approach the left foreground and complete the scene. Thoughts on the composition? ideas, suggestions?


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Neat town, Duane. I can relate to your composition problems, my coke oven plant was a headache because of a doorframe at the end of the backdrop that is visible in the scene, plus track close to the front edge of the layout and a removable section for continuous running that interfered with the scene. Yikes!

I really like the direction you are going here. in your first photo, the houses perched on retaining walls are perfect. The trick to avoid obscuring the track is to have a low profile foreground scene. How about moving the loading dock across the track to the near side, and have a road extend along your storefronts instead? A high concrete sidewalk like the Chase Creek section of Clifton would go perfect here.

Second photo: that foreground structure with the angled wall screams Jerome! Very nice touch. I found it's possible to photoshop in some foreground where necessary to avoid showing benchwork edges, but it's a tricky proposition.

Third photo: The break in the backdrop is a problem...only way I can think of hiding that would be a major distraction itself, a smelter smokestack perhaps? I don't know any sleight of hand that can hide that. The road looks great. How about a mining office or mansion for the superintendent instead of the headframe, it leaves me cold as well.

Fourth photo: I think the dock would work on the near side of the tracks better. You could have a clutter of mining equipment and supplies, and maybe a wagon team or an old truck backed up to the end of the dock. Just a suggestion.

You have a great scene started here, I find mining towns difficult because they were slapped together in real life, and had a random and improbable look to them. Your use of vertical space creates a lot of interest, and I really like your structures. Keep us posted on where you take this.

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Oops. Ay caramba! I must have clicked twice!

:mex:

PS - now that you are getting sucked into the vortex of model photography, check out Helicon Focus...its software allows you to combine a series of images taken at different focus planes to get very deep scenes with razor sharp focus from foreground to background. It is easy to use, it's just a bit of a learning curve figuring out how to space the focus planes. The software takes the sharpest focus sections of each of the series of photos and combines them into one killer image. With the relatively deep scenes you show here, it would be perfect to capture a sharp foreground scene while rendering the background in perfect focus as well. Just a thought.

Last edited on Tue Jul 5th, 2011 05:39 am by MinerFortyNiner

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"PS - now that you are getting sucked into the vortex of model photography, check out Helicon Focus."

Or Combine ZP if you want a free, if somewhat slower to function method of achieving the same result.

Doug

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Still have some detail work left, but trains are a runnin' accross the new bridge: Good to see the crew keeping the explosives car at the end of the consist.



 


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EXCELLENT Duane..I really like this bridge..but then I liked the earlier one.
Woodie

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And a couple more from todays "photo session." I was hoping to have the railroad ready to do a short Youtube video, but, as the pics show,  there is still is too much to do before the railroad is ready for "primetime."  

Here we get to follow action on the Torres y Prietas crew on a typical shift. The shadows are still long when the crew arrives at Pilares to switch out the empties and haul the loaded cars to the smelter.



 

What little traffic there is comes to a halt while the crew switches the ore bins



 

By the time the crew has the train assembled shade is disappearing from the treeless hills



 

Here the Torres y Prietas new diesel locos are bringing today's train down from the mines past Cerveza Mesa. During the summer the crew usually begins well before dawn to avoid the desert sun. T y P management plans to build about 10-15 more ore cars planned to alleviate the shortage.

 

 

By the time the ore train passes the old mission in the desert flats, the morning sun has driven the temps well into the 90s, and promises to be well above 100 degrees by early afternnoon.

 

 



 

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Duane-I am gonna tell you what I told Uncle Bob...quit sending photos of real stuff! Don't you have any model photos?
Woodie....(is jealous)

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Duane-

The shot of the train passing Cerveza Mesa is simply perfect!!!


Herb 

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Beautiful photos, Duane!

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Duane
 Those pics are fabulous, not to mention the work you put in. Simply amazing. When is your NGDU article going to be. The pic looking under the bridge into the distance is sweet.:moose::moose::moose::moose::moose:
                                                               Clif K

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Nice lighting, what did you used?

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Nada pero el sol

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Lucas--

He has a big hole in the roof!!

Just kidding!  :bg: 


Herb 

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elminero67 wrote:

 
I love how the backdrop and the scenery flow together perfectly. You'd think this photo was real

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Now I remember your layout is protable ... :dope: lol!

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Lucas Gargoloff wrote: Now I remember your layout is protable ... :dope: lol!who, me?

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Nope, Verne´s layout

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nvm...what, it's portable, WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:s::s::s::s::s: five stars!

Last edited on Wed Jul 13th, 2011 11:46 am by

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Thanks for the comments. Yep, the whole layout is on heavy castor wheels so it can be rolled outside when the weather is nice. The backdrop is not permanently attached, I painted it the other day to take some pics without the messy garage filling the background-to be more accurate my wife took several of the pics while I held the backdrop. This was not a good arrangement:



It was also too narrow for many of the angles, but this was supposed to be a learning experience:



 

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elminero67 wrote: Back to "vacation in the garage:" did a mock up with styrofoam to see how the company mining camp will lay out:

 

 



 


oh, i get it now...you didn't carve the styrofoam, you used the foam to get a general idea, then you used hydrocal/plaster to carve it. Amazing!:bow:

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elminero67 wrote:



 



 


wow, the cobble stone turned out prefectly, then again the whole layout's amazing, Keep up the great work!

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Thanks Tate

 

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A couple more of the bridge:



 


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Duane-incredible rock work and bridge. It makes me feel woozy just looking at it, I am sure your engineers feel the same way. A detail for the locos, how about buckets for the crew to use when they need to ............!
Woodie

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Hey amigo!!! the guys of Torres and Prietas should be happy with the new bridge!!!, that´s looks awesome!!!

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Thanks!

 

 

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No wonder that you have a deficit--why that bridge must have cost a bazillion pesos!

:thumb: :thumb:


Herb 

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Pesos are no problem Here on the Torres y Prietas. Kind of like Pancho Villa, we print new ones all the time.

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Great progress

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A couple new pics of recent progress:



 


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OK Duane, I am gonna tell you what I told Uncle Bob...we want to see MODEL photos, not photos of the real thing! Trying to fool us with photos like these is not very nice. I thought you were sending photos of your layout, not....Oh, I have been informed that they ARE of your layout...never mind.
Woodrow


******most excellent**********

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Top marks

Your layout is really coming along. The ramshackle fence is a scene stealer, its detail that set great layout apart.

Keep at it, one day you will think the layout is finished until you find something else needs to be done.

Don

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DUDE!!!
those are stunning pictures
they are going to have a bad side effect,
now everyone will want to put casters on
their layout and roll them outside for pictures!
Your color and detail is only surpassed
by Ma Nature herself.
Carl:bow:

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Realy like that post and wire fence. I don't think I have ever seen that detail on another layout. Outstanding work on the bridge and the old church.
Ron D.
Homewood, IL

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Working on a new shipper for the T y P, an operational stamp mill. This is one of the reasons I wanted to go to a larger scale! Got a good start today and think (hope) Ive got the mechanical elements figured out. Right now trying to build the cams with the right shape...

 


Last edited on Sun Sep 18th, 2011 02:32 am by elminero67

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Not sure about stamp mills, but the typical "lift and drop" cam on old machinery, as best I can describe it is-

take a vertical rod, and attach a banana, one end of which is fastened at right angles to the rod. The convex side does the lifting, the concave side clears the lifted item when the item falls. I think that the concave side is important to ensure a "clean" drop. 

The us of real bananas is not recommended

Herb 

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As I recall, the cams look like a "script" S...tapered ends and the rods were lifted and dropped with a WHACK! Keep going Duane, we may send our ore to you for milling..
Woodie

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The real deal has an "S" shaped cam-but for the model It will need to be a touch beefier for the sake of strength. This model definitely won't put me over the top for the much coveted MMR designation that I live to achieve, but will hopefully not self destruct upon start up as some real stamp mills have. One in particular comes to mind, a large 80- or 100- stamp mill was set up in Lordsburg, New Mexico. It lasted less only minutes before sending cams, pullies and splinters flying. Like many mining ventures, the management of that mill quickly left town...

Last edited on Mon Sep 19th, 2011 02:14 am by elminero67

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I don't think you need to worry about the MMR certificate, your already there. Great work. There are some great pics around explaining the so called finer points of the stamp. Keep up the posts.
                             :thumb::thumb::thumb::thumb::thumb:WCLM

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Thanks Clif!

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Out cruising the new Diesel on a sunny afternoon

 

 

 


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Wonderful scenery and X-1 in the middle of it! Most excellent, Duane.
Woodie

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Sounds like Woodie is getting the diesel bug...

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Duane, X-1 is considered an "honorary steam locomotive" by many. I have plans for my own version of this fine loco but with siderods on the trucks. Who sez I ain't modern??
Woodrow

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"Who sez I ain't modern??"


Does this mean we should be expecting a Frank lloyd Wright house in the ridge overlooking Mogollon

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How about FLW hanging from a trestle on the Mogollon? (remember John Allen's diesel salesman?)...
troublemaker

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Anything but Brutalist architecture

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What-no Brutalist fans out there? Buehler...Buehler..

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Sorry-Ferris has left the building. F L Wright's body is still twisting slowly, slowly in the wind. How brutal is that?
troublemaker

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Ive had the pleasure of working on one of F L's houses. I think he designed the gas tank for the Pinto as well.

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Don't know how I missed this thread. I stumbled onto it by way of France...but I digress.

You need to knock it off Duane, the pictures are making me homesick.

In all seriousness, the scenery is fantastic! Would love to get a few pointers on your techniques.

BTW, Verne, How come you never got around to pointing me in the direction of this thread? ;)

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Thanks for the kind words. Im glad it reminds you of the desert, as that was why I built it. I don't do anything much different that "standard" model railroading scenery practices, but do try to make the trains part of the scene rather than fill spaces between the tracks with scenery-desert scenery tends to take alot of precious real estate as the openess is what defines it. Feel free tom ask if you have any questions about specific techniques etc, and welcome to the often overlooked T y P thread.

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What is this overlooked business? Maybe it is because your layout inspires all of us to work on our layouts instead of sitting at a computer and drooling.
Woodie-MMR (Monkey Model Railroader #1)

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Yeah- - the drool makes my fingers slip off the keys--


Herb 

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Thanks Herb-are you sure you were looking at pics of the T y P?

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elminero67 wrote: Thanks for the kind words. Im glad it reminds you of the desert, as that was why I built it. I don't do anything much different that "standard" model railroading scenery practices, but do try to make the trains part of the scene rather than fill spaces between the tracks with scenery-desert scenery tends to take alot of precious real estate as the openess is what defines it. Feel free tom ask if you have any questions about specific techniques etc, and welcome to the often overlooked T y P thread.Thanks Duane.  My comments in the post were a bit premature.  I thought I recognized the techniques and remembered an email communication we had a couple of years back. Been tossing about this idea and would like to work with your techniques for rocks and scenery.  I really like the idea of underpainting the rocks and then adding subsequent layers of colors as 'washes' to develop the depth of colors.  It reminds me a bit of how Maxfield Parrish painted.

 http://freerails.com/view_topic.php?id=3441&forum_id=4

Last edited on Fri Oct 14th, 2011 09:48 pm by AZnarrowgaugefan

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Like all scenery techniques, there are advantages and disadvantages. Plaster is cheap when you buy it in 50lb bags, and it repairs easy. Im still perfecting the paint technique, the biggest tip I can give is avoid brown paints and dont use any one single color for more than a spritz or two.

Took a break from my Willys truck project to work on the stamp mill. I kinda lost track of the "plan" during the hiatus.  Can anyone spot the engineering blunder?


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Duane-I don't see any engineering problems, it looks great to me...I just wonder about the bar codes on the timbers, did they use them back then? LOL....
Enlighten us poor unwashed dudes...
Woodie

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I hate those stupid bar codes, but im too cheap to waste the last two inches of material, and too lazy to sand them off!
The problem is the stamp mill frame doesnt fit in the building. It is too tall and there isnt enough room for the bullwheel and other mechanical parts. Good thing the only engineering I do is in the form of models

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Awww, put a bump out on the roof and continue...OK?
Woodie

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Why not-Ive seen it done on the prototypes!

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That's what they make cupolas for ( not the iron smelting ones either)!


Herb 

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Did major surgery today on the mining camp today. For the fourth time I took the sawsall to the hillside as I wasnt happy with the compsition.-I keep trying to put too much into a very small space. My initial plan was to use this unfinished Mission Revival station based loosely on the station at Burlingame, California, or at Rhyolite, NV.



Although typical for a turn of the century mining camp, it was too crowded. the Mission Revival station has returned "unfinshed and homeless models" shelf above my workbench.



 I then considered moving the row of businesses that were located where the stamp mill is. I still think this is too crowded-but am open towards other opinions



This is closer to what Im leaning towards, except the the triangular, modernistic "Jerome" store will be replaced with a run down station more stylistically consistent with the background structures. I havent removed it yet, and am open towards other viewpoints...

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Duane,

I have a hunch you are on the better path with the recomposing of the scene that you are undertaking.

I agree about the previous station not quite fitting with the rest of the context you've created.

However what was you interest in the Burlingame station? I am curious as I grew up in that town and I know that small spanish revival station well.

Peter

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Duane-

The "crowding" doesn't bother my eye as much as the side of the buildings (which I assume is the front- where people would enter) being a sheer drop. any amount of road, or even a board sidewalk would be a help here. from what I have seen in photos of old Western towns, crowding- especially in areas that were not flat- was a way of life.



Herb 

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Duane
Great surgery with the sawsall, must be a Dewalt. Looks like your well into a great scene. Each version has looked good and it just gets better. Herb's idea for a cupola is perfect for your stamp mill. Please post more when you got them.
Clif K

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Peter-If you grew up near Burlinggame, you probably are familiar with the Espee station's role in the development of American Architecture: For those who havent seen it, the 1894 Burlingame station is largely credited with being the first example of Mission Revival architecture. Mission revival took many of the elements used on 17th century Spanish Missions, such as curvilinear gables, white stuccoed surfaces, faux bell towers and red tile roofs-iirc the tile roof for the Burlingame Station was (cringe) removed from a nearby 17th Century Mission. Really a beautiful architectural form that is erroniously lumped into the broad "Southwestern Architecture" category.

http://memory.loc.gov/cgi-bin/ampage?collId=hhphoto&fileName=ca/ca0800/ca0857/photos/browse.db&action=browse&recNum=0&title2=Southern%20Pacific%20Railroad%20Station,%20Burlingame%20Avenue%20%26%20California%20Drive,%20Burlingame,%20San%20Mateo,%20CA&displayType=1&itemLink=D?hh:1:./temp/~ammem_b5fT::

Herb-I agree-the steep drop off in front of the stores is unsightly. I considered expanding the layout a tad to allow for a street scene, but decided against expansion on principle alone-the T y P already takes up 1/2 of my 2-car garage!
Clif-that crazy Woodie guy always seems to find an easy answer that works, perhaps we should send him to D.C. to solve a few problems.

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Duane-how many mountain towns (Jerome, etc) are laid out nicely and artistically? As far as I can see, the more crowded and funky it is, the more realistic it becomes. Just my dos.
Also, as for DC, the job problem could be cured with putting guys to work installing poles along all the roads...we need a great many for all the politicians that need a' hanging! Big bro' is watching!!!
Woodie

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Not many of the early ones were laid out as much as shoehorned into anywhere they can be perched-or blasted into the hills and canyons. While not intentionally artistic, the way the houses flowed with the landscape was kinda artistic.

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Have to agree with you there, Duane.  There is a certain dynamic tension in the way the structures were clinging to the hillsides that appeals to me.

Last edited on Mon Oct 17th, 2011 09:00 pm by AZnarrowgaugefan

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this is such a great layout. Thanks for all the updates with photos. I haven't gotten to what exact locale you are modelling in the thread, but I have seen a lot of Colorado narrow gauge and you do get the feel of it to a T.

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Thanks-the Torres y Prietas is set somewhere along the Arizona/ New Mexico /Mexican border, although noone is really sure what side of the border it is on. The management doesnt worry much about such details, but the landscape in the high desert is somewhat similar to southwestern Colorado.

I rolled the layout outdoors yesterday for a last run before the fall rains set in, kinda like the way the long shadows played on the hills and cactus, gives it a much "cooler" look than the earlier shots in the heat of summer:


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I like the long shadows and 'cooler' feel.  Nice shot.

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My wife thinks the sky doesnt match the foreground.  :shocked:   (Ididnt share my thoughts with her on the new curtains...)

Last edited on Sat Oct 22nd, 2011 06:37 pm by elminero67

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Duane
It looks great. Sure adds an other bit to an already great work. Smart move on your part about the curtains. Do you have room under the layout if you happen to gibe in to temptation and mention the curtains?
Clif K

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Diplomacy has won the day: In a rare stroke of eloquence I was able to subtly suggest a color that compliments the existing artwork-so no need to sleep under the Torres & Prietas this time.

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elminero67 wrote: My wife thinks the sky doesnt match the foreground.  :shocked:   (Ididnt share my thoughts with her on the new curtains...)
Oh contrary, I see that kind of sky out in the desert a lot in the spring and fall, especially early mornings the last hour before sunset.  As for the curtains, best let SWMBO have the say on that and since the layout is in the garage don't worry about them. :)

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elminero67 wrote: Thanks-the Torres y Prietas is set somewhere along the Arizona/ New Mexico /Mexican border, although noone is really sure what side of the border it is on. The management doesnt worry much about such details, but the landscape in the high desert is somewhat similar to southwestern Colorado.

I rolled the layout outdoors yesterday for a last run before the fall rains set in, kinda like the way the long shadows played on the hills and cactus, gives it a much "cooler" look than the earlier shots in the heat of summer:



Yep it looks like southern Colorado/New Mexico to me. The church is a really nice touch and the layout looks great with real sun and sky.

All you guys are gonna make me wanna switch to narrow gauge after seeing the pics here. (Shakin' my head and wonderin' how can I have it all?)

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the dark side (aka narrow gauge) calleth...

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Well there are plans for some On30 to run on the HO scale layout in the front yard. Then again, there are also plans for an old HO 4-4-0 pulling post civil war era cars also.

Did I mention that I like trains? oh oh I think I have a signature. ha ha

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elminero67 wrote:
I come from a long line of really cheap peoples. Everything in this scene is painted plaster over recycled foam liberated from a construction dumpster. As for 'how," I'm not a huge fan of "how to build" books or magazines because I think the cool part of the hobby is finding out what technique and materials work for you rather than a step by step rehash of what worked for someone else

I hate to dredge up old parts of a long discussion, but this time I had to. There is a lot to be said for this approach to model railroading.

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Cant speak for everyone, but bringing up an old conversation is always welcome, heck. Im flattered that anyone takes the time to read this thread!

Of course, the mindset of constantly experimenting and finding new techniques tends to lead to an occassional epic failure.

Im also thinking of expanding the T & P outdoors. For the last few months I have been building rock walls and bringing home truckloads of dirt for what my wife erroneously believes will be a Japanese Garden...(just my passive-aggressive side for holding my tongue on those dreadful curtains)

Last edited on Wed Nov 2nd, 2011 05:04 pm by elminero67

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OK Duane-building outside??? You won't regret it, I am sure. Reading your old posts, I most certainly do, responding to them-looks like somebody always beats me to it. I can't tell you how many guys who "lurk" here but don't post are in awe of your efforts. Hell, I am in awe of your work myself. I have looked at many layout photos on other sites and always compare them to yours...there really is no comparison. I ain't telling you this to make you feel good, well maybe a little, but I am telling you this because it is TRUE. With that said (or written), now maybe you can continue on, knowing that you have inspired many more modelers than you can imagine. I would still make my junk if nobody looked, I just love to build funky trains. Now, get back to work and forget that head swellin' feeling.
the Original troublemaker

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Maybe she heard you say something like Shinohara or Tsunami and thought you were talking about Japanese gardens.

he he he you won't regret the outdoors stuff one bit. On30 outdoors seems like a perfect type of railroading for it too. Woodies layout is a good example of it. The real weathering on structures and scenery adds a nice touch.

I won't clutter your layout thread with links to other things, but there is some really beautiful work being done with ho scale track that is ballasted and runs through real rock canyons with plants. Just today I linked to a shot of a steam engine that was beautifully weathered sitting on track that was lightly dusted with snow.

Oh and the complete lack of space limitations.

I've read through a lot of stuff on here. I really admire a lot of the work people are doing. It's always very inspiring.

(he he I was typing my response and thought it was gonna be the next reply, but woodie beat me to it!)

Edit edit edit... Boy, i get philosophical about model railroading sometimes.

I read Woodies comment and also your comment, and I was reading the discussion about fun and model railroading. The thing about good layouts is that there actually is a lot of failure involved in building a layout, the trick is to rework the fails into wins. It's easy to come onto a forum and say "wow that guy is amazing, I could never do that". But most layouts that are impressive evolve over time and things that were not so impressive get fiddled with till they are. It's not like people post images of complete dud models they made and I bet even you two have a box of junk you had to give up on somewhere. Although after many failed models your ratio of crap gets lower and lower, but the only way to get to that point is to just keep making stuff.

I guess after realizing that there are a lot of lurkers out there, it made me realize that they should come out of the woodwork regardless of how good their stuff is and just share their experience of it with us.

Last edited on Wed Nov 2nd, 2011 04:48 pm by Traingeekboy

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Have you thought about the inherent problems of an outdoor layout?

Like how are you going to roll it inside to take pictures?



Herb 

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Im sure my wife would appreciate wheels on it so she can wheel it to the curb on trash night when she finds it will be expanding into the garden...

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I laughed so hard over this exchange. wheeling the layout in ha ha ha :bow:

Last edited on Thu Nov 3rd, 2011 05:50 pm by Traingeekboy

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Btw-thanks for (too) kind words and support Woodie-if your comments weren't posted at 10:00 am I would have suspected you were down at the Bloated Goat!

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In the spirit of cheap management often seen with struggling narrow gauge, I picked these up today:



They are called "Lotsa Lights! Flashing Holiday Necklace," and I picked them up at the checkout stand of the local hardware store for $2.99.  It is basically a string of small lights, with an on/off switch. The cool thing about it is that the switch has three settings, fast blink, slow blink, and "on," and it comes with two extra batteries. Lot of easy lighting possibilities for three bucks, and I believe the lights are all clear, but the covers are colored. 

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Duane-great find! I will look for these, sure beats fiddling with tiny bulbs & "timer circuits" for some applications. Thanks.
Woodie

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I thought Woodie would like these. BATTERY OPERATED

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I pulled the plastic covers off and found that the bulbs are tiny grain of wheat size. I believe that they are lcd or something. They also last a long time on a battery. Much to his chagrin, I strung a set on the family cat about an hour ago, and they are still going. We'll see what last longer-the battery or the pissed-off look the cat has.

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I'll bet the cat wins. 

About this outdoor stuff...it has it's pros and cons as Herb eluded to.  I model indoors and love it, especially when it's 107 degrees outside in summer or a really cold winter.  However, that said, I also love to get up and fix a couple of bacon, egg and cheese sandwiches and head over to Woodie's for a morning op session.  I have enjoyed many a morning switching the mines or running the tourist train to the cliff dwellings.  I'd say if you can find a way, do both.

Just my 2 cents.

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It will be a while before the T & P is ready to head outdoors, but watching the trains outdoors on a summer morning (with a cup of coffee) certainly sounds relaxing

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But Duane-we don't watch the trains, we RUN the trains! Mucho mas FUN...
Woodrow

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Sad to admit, but the T & P still isnt to the point that Im happy with the operation: I can operate trains and have basic switching, but have several switches in the yard that cause derailments on a regular basis, along with a couple of Peco switches that transmit electricity when, and if they want to. Other times they just short out if I throw them-but never the same short circuit twice, making it difficult to determine what is going wrong.
I know what your thinking, Woody! But I wasnt satisfied with the remote control setup on the Shay, after replacing the receiver three times the gears on the Shay took a *#@*. I put it on the shelf and have been running regular dc since.
But until everything is fully operational, I still enjoy letting the trains run while sitting back with a cup of coffee.

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Hope everyone had as good of a Thanksgiving as the "Elminero" family did!

I haven't been posting much new Torres & Prietas material lately as I've been working on other projects, such as the 48 Willys pickup Im restoring as a Fairmont Hi-rail conversion. The work I have done on the Torres & Prietas is not particularly interesting, such as fixing switches, wiring and whatnot.

I've also submitted an article for NG & SL Gazette last week. I haven't heard back from Mr. Brown, but if the article isnt published, Ill be sure to post it here, as I prefer to share stuff in a format that allows interaction, but I do have an ulterior motive.

Im also writing a few articles for more "serious" magazines such as an article on the chronological development of the architecture of the stamp mill. Im thinking of submitting this article in Journal of Industrial Archeology or similar peer-reviewed journal. The ulterior motive is that funding for my job will be running out in less than a year, and publishing articles in a recognized journal as opposed to a website or Model Railroader may help pad the resume. 

 Ive also been experimenting with large scale models: This will be a circa 1870, Gothic Revival house dollhouse for the granddaughter. This big scale stuff is fun! I can use the nail gun, cut all of the material with the table saw (and still have fingers). I definitely envy the the things those large scale modellers can do!

 

Here is a link to the prototype:

http://memory.loc.gov/cgi-bin/displayPhoto.pl?path=/pnp/habshaer/or/or0100/or0119/photos&topImages=129739pr.jpg&topLinks=129739pv.jpg,129739pu.tif&title=2.%20%20Historic%20American%20Buildings%20Survey,%20Jack%20E.%20Boucher,%20Photographer%20August,%201971%20EAST%20(SIDE)%20ELEVATION.%3cbr%3eHABS%20ORE,15-JACVI,49-2&displayProfile=0

Thats all I got! just wanted to give a quick update and thank those that follow the Torres & Prietas thread, hope to get some new material out soon, Duane "Elminero" 

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fellers...

How about the NCNG bridge across the bare river...?..spindelish...three foot gauge ..lite...might be a product of it's size...

The girders would be sized for the load by some en gineer at some bridge design place..for the load..if ya need calculate windage...it could be scary..

AND....I vote for a car float to gettem across...on a canal..Mars canals...cubit gauge..moo hhahahaha:sad:

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Duane-heard any more about the Gazette article? I think Mr Brown likes to wait until the author dies and then print the article; he doesn't have to pay for it! LOL
Wonderful job on the "big house"...any more photos??
Woodie

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Woodie, I have not heard back from mr brown. I've been down in Mexico for the last few weeks, but when I get back in the states I'll see if I can find out what the deal is. I'm almost finished with the granddaughters dollhouse and am anxious to get back to the Torres and Prietas, salud y felliz navidad, Duane

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Tomorrow is Xmas-which means that the day after xmas, I can get back to working on the Torres y Prietas! Im almost finished with the 1/12 scale gothic revival dollhouse, just need to paint it, then install a porch and a few details. I wont be adding any delicate details such as scale shingles, windows or trim until our granddaughter is a little older:

I can see why large scale garden railroads have grown so much in the last few years, the potential for building realistic buildings cheaply with real materials has an appeal-the cost of rail, trucks and locomotives do seem high though, but then again, I am cheap.

The house was built for under $10 in material-although I did use a good portion of clear grain, old growth/quartersawn redwood that I had stashed for a rainy day. Anyways, merry xmas everyone, and thanks for the support/interest in the T y P thread, even when it goes astray.


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don't mind the straying fine doll house i built a kit one years ago when my daughter was young but yours is much nicer.

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Duane , fellers..

A hunnert years ago.....when starting into large scale.."G" then as it were...The ability to use a  table saw for scale lumber was a neat thing...cost being a factor..

Nice house... Christmas...will be a happy one..I have gone road trip ,  am away from my trains..

I was  not going to divulge...so soon..I divorced and moved..so the excuse of lacking built...is valid..I do have motivation...and a place..as well as a place for the 15" gauge...AND...all my "stuff" is being sorted...My life...out with the old ..in with the new...

It will....be a bit of a slog ..to get shop up and running..sort of a running...re build use it thing...

Tried to add a pitcher last time..will try again...

Will hit enter before next time ..mooo hhahahahahah

This is a turntable made in resin...from a clay master...a failure..SE ...it has an arche to it..and the wagons sort of roll off ...another master needs made from styrene..turntables are great for minor railways...

Charley

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Charley-Sorry to hear about the issues on the homefront, but as you've probably learned, that life has a way of balancing the good with the bad. Using a table saw for G scale is, however, cutting it a little close-do you still have all of your fingers?

Since I have taken no new pics, Ill try to post a few from angles that haven't been seen previously:

 


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Duane , fellers...

I am happy...my outlook is better..my tools are all in one place..in the old house I had areas all over which each held a certain function..Paint/ modeling / model railways..and had to have tools in each spot..now I have tools duplicated..a sad state..?..

The bridge looks very nize...good job of it..and fast...ore to move...?

I like it..

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MODEL RAILROADING IS GREAT THERAPY ! Now, get back to work!!!
Outlaw troublemaker

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Words of wisdom there, Mr Greene. My wife is a licensed mental health therapist, and when she was getting her Master's degree she brought home some models and was studying from a Dr SoandSo who pioneered a therapy where the patient learned to relax and meditate by playing with models...wow. Im glad it took a Phd to figure that out, because surely us knuckledraggers couldnt without his/her discovery.

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WC , El miner fellers..

You guys are some healthy dudes...I will get back to it soonest,,...I am starting clean slate..I see this as good...I was gridlocked before...literally had to move this to do that  repeat...

I sort of feel..every time I write here or there..about gonna do ...

that it is lame..doing is the thing..I have said it often..belly up to the workbench...that is where the therapy / fun/ getting into it enough that the world is gone for awhile..

IS ...

I have really taken the medicine..enough to make it so anything I make...will be on my own time.{ schedule,}..this is no slight of you guys for kindly encouraging me...

I had "once" gotten to where I viewed this ..everything was built on a time motion study -esque mentality...how fast..oh I gotta build four of those.drats...any time my hobby becomes gotta..it is bad..

Should be Get- ta...ain't it..?..some peoples might take notice to avoid the dreaded "?...hobby" BORDER="0" ALT="">
Please allow the posting of slightly dated fotos of SE bulkhead flats ..for motivation of others...




This one is on paint bench..{now gone }...showing SE resin castings of bulkhead flats...SE 18" gauge...



On workbench ..probably drying glue..I use five minute setting epoxy for the glueing up of these castings.they will still kit themselves if dropped with heavy metal wheelies inside.../ mounted...



This is the second gen side frames...shewn outside in garden...garden exists and will ..Wife is keeping house...and doggie ..and cats..which is OK..they live there..no use changing their world....






Some of these guys at the towne station...made from white grainy styrofoam...gluen with Gorilla glue..painted with acoustic tile paint...very nice..very cheap...very effective...

Sorry to the guys on the SE list for duplicating...

I have buku pitchers to post , they are not new stuff.tho'..

Charley





Charley

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Charlie-those are some great looking models, and the photographs you posted on Woodies were awesome as well. Would love to see some of your other photos, you should get a thread going here in the Narrow Gauge section and share them with a little background.

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I promise, this will be the last picture of the dollhouse.


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El Miner...WC...fellers..

That is one cool house ..the kids just have to be super impressed ..

AND...I knew that hi jacking others thread is considered poor form...you guys are taking it well...I don't see it as a bad thing..some do..?..

I will start ...the Excelsior thread ...the fotos posted are older modeling ...hopefully these are not duping up for too many....of youse...

I do want to be a plus to the list..I will just keep one thread going with what ever I am doing...I did that on the SE list...it kinda wandered...but it was in one place...

Charley










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Duane-you were right, she is a doll and that is a house! MERRY CHRISTMAS from us Texacans...
Woodie

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cold, rainy outside. Saw this unused pic consuming precious memory space on my antiquated computer...


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Thats pretty sweet Duane. The hills work beautifully in the forced perspective with a great sky along the horizon. Great colour capture as well. Good thing its raining for the rest of us.

Cheers,
Dan Pickard

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Dan , Duane...fellers..

I only have old dated pitchers to offer at this point...thanks for shewing one of yours...

This is all motivational...I post in the hope of stirring somebody else into motivating me...self serving wanker that I am..

here are some fotos I took of the Leslie salt railway in Newark...












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Duane, I always admire your scenery man!!!! It´s amazing!!!!

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elminero67 wrote:
cold, rainy outside. Saw this unused pic consuming precious memory space on my antiquated computer...




It's guys like you that make me think I am completely out of my league. Very nice shot. :bow::bow::bow: I am not worthy.

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thanks guys-dont know if the T y P is out out of anyone's league, it is butchered, hacked, cobbled and pieced together. a little plaster and a little paint, makes her what she aint.

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:moose::moose::moose::moose: it's good work it shows what can be done with a little plaster and paint

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:moose::moose: charley neat pictures how do the flats couple togather?

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The angle of the last pic seems to work pretty well for photographs, the last time I had the T y P outdoors I sat and watched the shadows change on this scene as the sun went accross the sky.

For the composition on the last pic I used all of the usual tricks to give the feeling of distance, such as brighter colors, more detail (relatively speaking, I use details sparingly) and larger cactus in the foreground. The background mesa doesnt have much detail or color.

BUT they are not all gems, for every decent pic, there are dozens that dont work out so well. Heres a different angle of the mining camp (before it was remodelled for the third time)that Ive been playing with. This photo isnt great but I think the angle has potential if I can finish a few details and ease the transition between the model and backdrop: The photoshopped background is looking down from Mogollon accross the San Francissco valley in southwest New Mexico:


Last edited on Sat Dec 31st, 2011 04:12 am by elminero67

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it looks real :2t::2t::moose::moose:

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WARNING ANOTHER COMPLETELY RANDOM POST!

Came accross these pics while deleting stuff off the computer. Those who have followed the T y P thread probably know of my love for the geography and history of Arizona, New Mexico and northern Mexico. Back in the days before the west was plastered in NO TRESPASSING and ROAD CLOSED signs, I spent much of my time exploring old ghost towns, abandoned mines and railroads.  These two pics were taken while following the grade of the 2' narrow gauge Silver City, Pinos Altos and Mogollon Railway as it crosses the continental divide about a mile south of Pinos Altos. Havent been there in a few years but back then you could drive a good 5 miles of it with a high clearence vehicle: Good times, just had to share:



After the first pic, the second is somewhat predictable:


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Duane-looks like some severe fun! A friend of mine, Steve Beck, wants to get back out there to the SCPA&M and find the "hairpin turn" shown in a couple of old photos. Any advice on finding that one?


Woodie

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Ill try to dig up a map and some pics of the hairpin curve of the SC PA & M. Ill post a vintage pic of the hairpin so that eveyone is in the loop...

This photo is a little misleading, as it doesnt capture how sharp the corner is, and the hand painted trees in the background are probably a little generous; anything that could be cut, burned or browsed had disappeared by 1907 when this pic was taken: Hard to believe these are called the Pinos Altos (tall pines) mountains

.

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This gives an idea of the last 3-4 miles of the Silver City, Pinos Altos and Mogollon, with Silver City, New Mexico, where the narrow gauge interchanged with the Santa Fe. As the map shows the narrow gauge never went into the miniing camp of Pinos Altos, but stopped at the edge of town.  The Pacific Mine and Gillette Mines were the biggest shippers, but other mines along the way also shipped, most of which were owned by the parent Comanche Mining Co. While all of the sources claimed a 6% grade, I didnt see anything beyond a 3-5% grade.

 


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 ,  Dont know how this will look as I had to convert it from a PDF to a jpg, but it is about the same as the topo: #2 is the lattice truss bridge that our very own Mr Woodie has moddeled on his Mogollon Rwy, also the site where 2 SC PA & M emlpoyess and a representative of the Lima Locomomotive Co. died while trying to go a little faster down the grade than was prudent. The Hairpin can be hiked to from the two water towers right below the huge "W" seen on the hill. These are located on Wendy road, which is off Pinos Altos road. You can scramble from the tanks to the grade, then follow the grade down to the hairpin. I believe it is all public lands, but private houses are nearby. iirc it is about a mile, but fairly rough as all of the trestles are gone and you have to scramble accross several gulches. Today the trees are so thick you can't take a photograph of the hairpin, it is just too thick, but a good hike. Personally I think the best parts of the grade are above this point, dont know about access as there was talk of putting in a fancy schmancy subdivision, and I havent been back in 5-6 years.

 



 

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fellers..

Very nice..foto of the layout with the back ...very nice..one of the best..

And thinks for the virtual tour of the Mugee own lands..

Charley

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Duane-MUCHO THANKS. Old Steve will really appreciate this info...and I love it also. I knew we could count on you!
Woodrow

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Im trying to find the "lost chapter" of the Silver City book that was never published including the "now and then" pictures I took recreating the historical pics...thought I had it saved somewhere, but it has been a few years. Will keep looking

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More maps-this time an old topo of the Torres & Prietas:


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That's some mighty fine work there Elminero!

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Minera , WC, fellers...

I can see whur the  suspension bridge was..good gowd man..that is some rough country...pretty rich lode be my guess...
















Fotos of a Yuba tugger ...this for the incline plane up to the mine ...er


















Charley

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Pretty cool Charley, nice old flathead four banger. I suspect that inclines were more common than youd think, but many of the smaller, less formal inclines were not recorded or remembered.
 

Meanwhile, Ive been going through the village of La Colorada and updating buildings. Hopefully the well travelled stamp mill has found a permanent home, same with the headframe behind it. The "new" station at La Colorada replaces the previous station, which was thrown together in a hurry to get trains running. The new La Colorada represents a Territorial Style that was common in the American southwest from the 1870s to about WWI. In many ways, Territorial style represents the pinnicle of the development of Southwestern architecture, and is a regional interpretation of Greek Revival architecture: 


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And a quick pic of Douglas:


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Elmer , fellers..

You have really nailed the scenery..the whole genre..is very cool...

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Yep, Duane is the master!

Woodie

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Duane, that last picture you just posted, I really like the town scene on the right.

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Herb 

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Thanks-after about a dozen configurations (and thoughts of conflagration) this is about the best I could come up with in the space available. Have added a few more buildings since this pic was taken.

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At quick glance, Jerome comes to mind.  Great scenery.....but would you PLEASE weather those critters.

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The T y P keeps their diesels clean!

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fellers..

OR ....perhaps they are so dang new they haven't got the crud .."yet"...:sad:

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Yeah just to repeat what's been said, Nice rock work. Love how the roadbed looks like it belongs there too.

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Please forgive po' old Mopman, he is used to operating on the Mogollon Railway where EVERYTHING is weathered, that includes Mopman hisself! Funny thing though, he has some nice clean MoPac dismals, he doesn't seem to take the weathering home with him. As for the "Jerome" comparison, that is pretty much right on. I would love to live in Jerome, but I have verdigo and that switchback main street might make me ne...ne...nervous. What a great little town.

Duane-I will tell you again, please send some photos of your layout, all these photos of real stuff are getting to me.

Hasta la vista
Woodrow

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Duane ,

Did I hear right ..you live in Medford..?..I was there this morning..not anymore tho.'

Charley

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Yeppers, live in Medford, or Med-tucky as I like to call it.

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fail. Built a blacksmith shop for one of the mines, but it doesnt fit the intended location very well. Will be building another, smaller blacksmith shop...

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:2t: on the black smith shop

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Can't believe I missed this string. That'll teach me to only look in On30 ;) Wonderful layout.

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Paul-if you are interested in Duane's other endevours, look for his books...Silver City Narrow Gauge and Sonora Narrow Gauge. I imagine that you can put Duane Ericson on Google and get info on them. The Silver City book is about my favorite 2 footer and the Sonora book is about Mexican mining lines owned by another W C Greene. Needless to say, I have no financial stake in this (unless Duane wants to cross the palm!) but just want to promote an author who has done his homework for us to enjoy.

Woodie

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Thanks Paul/Woodie. As a footnote on the Silver City book for others who may be interested, there was an unauthorized edition released with poor quality paper and stapled together, doesnt do much for the photographs. Someday when I come accross new pics of the Silver City narrow gauge Id like to do a better version of that subject. 

On the homefront, wont have new pics until spring, but I do have some from the last outdoor session with the T & P's suspiciously clean diesels. As can be seen in some of the pics, the two units are permanently wired together, really helps with operation on the dirty tracks. You can also see the unfinished smelter yard...one of these days Ill get inspired and finish it...


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Elminero...fellers...

As usual..your high standard of scenery..buildings..and Conceptual idealism..{ that was quite a bit huh..:cb:..}

Those little dizzle critters are quite good runners...and two wired a geddah is probably quite the rig...

Even fotographical...excellence demonstrated...more please..micro scenes...are fun to stage and foto hint hint..etc...:mex:

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Charley. Ive been accused of many things, but high standards is not one of them.

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Hey Elmer...feller..

Whur'd ya get that 1:35th class "A" climax ..and did they run any of those in the bad land of Silver hills...?

This is a test of course..anybody paying attention..or using the " FREE ATTENTION FEATURE"....

This is only a test...I think the 1: 35 th route is one the Elminero central de minas azul ferro carril de Argenta could use ?.

Any plans to up grade your line to Woody size..?..would you like to super size that sir ..?....

I think fondly of the 1:35th..my schtufe is packed and no time anyway..but it nice to think about...

I did once make a 1:32 scale lokey on a bach m porter chassi..a neat thing..track powa tho'...

Charles

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thought id kick off the "postcard series" with a circa 1907  inspired view;


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Duane-just BEAUTIFUL! You should get this photo made into real postcards and send me SOME!

Woodie

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Sweet Duane. I love the perspective you get in you modelling, just superb.

Cheers,
Dan Pickard

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Just about as close to the real thing as you can get---The B&W is the clincher!



Herb 

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i want a postcard too

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Thanks, may have to print up a few!

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Duane
 As always, top notch. The cards are a great idea and look really interesting. It also helps when you got some great stuff to work with. I really like the shot a couple posts back looking down into the valley. Keep feeding us more of your work.
                                        Thanks
                                          Clif K

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I thought it was a real postcard at first until I recognized the mesa in the background.

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1950s "chrome" postcard:


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You should start selling these, make some monedas ;)

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Morning all; I apologize for not being around much lately, have been getting caught up on other projects, and I know once I start looking at everyone elses's trains, Ill want to work on the Torre & Prietas. Once I start working on the T y P I wont get anything "productive" done.

Found this buried deep in the Elminero files. Feel free to insert your own caption:

Last edited on Fri Apr 27th, 2012 04:14 pm by elminero67

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"Is that a potato or are you just happy to see me?"

Annon

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Don't know who I feel the worst for: the miner getting the rather invasive search, the fellow that had to give all of the searches, or the handkerchief hanging out of the inspectors rear pocket....

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With that handkerchief hanging out of his pocket, Juan Zucca seems to enjoy a bit to much his job checking for high graders. 

At any rate, I wouldn't want either job.

Last edited on Fri Apr 27th, 2012 05:33 pm by AZnarrowgaugefan

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"And cough"

Would make a somewhat different mini scene!

Cheers,
Dan Pickard

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Is that a TSA security training class for the mining industry.
Clif K

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Funny, but I think TSA only does that to 80 year old grandmothers...


While not quite as innapropriate, my workbench is almost as scary as Senor Miner Inspector:



I haven't actually seen the top of the workbench since Fall, when I started working on my Willys truck. Since then I havent ran a train or worked on any RR projects,but today I took the first step...I cleaned and found stuff even an invasive TSA couldnt have dug out...

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freerails needs a like button

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Duane-just to help you clean things up, you can send the artwork on the walls to me, I will hang...er dispose of it properly. You need nice clean walls around your workbench.

Woodrow

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I know where the Eastern Division of that pile lives---

Hi--I'm Herb, and I'm messy

Hi Herb--go the away!



Herb 

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Nice paints there!!!

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Thanks! Painting really isnt too much different than model railroad scenery, but I really love the three dimensional aspect of model railroading, plus the trains, historic landscapes, architecture etc...

I did find a couple of old drawings buried on the workbench:






If anyone wants one of these "Elminero" originals, Im open for trades-I'm not looking for much as they are just getting damaged laying around on my workbench. MAKE AN OFFER!!

The first one is Rio Grande Southern 2-8-0 #40 in front of the Dolores station.

The second is Imuris Mines 24" Porter, this illustration was used on page 17 of the "Sonora Narrow Gauge" book.

The third is Silver City, Pinos Altos and Mogollon Shay #3. This illustration appears on page 51 of the "Silver City Narrow Gauge" book.
Seriously, not expecting to get alot for these, truth is I'd be honored if someone else wanted them, and like I mentioned, they are just getting buried and damaged on my desk, and I need On30 rolling stock....

Ill be sure to sign them before shipping....Thanks, Duane

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Absolutely great sketches Duane!

I don't know whether I like the first or second best---

Herb  

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Duane,

Truly beautiful paintings you have on the walls above and about your work bench. Of course, I just went all goofy over the original drawings from your books.

It's a shame the painting for the Silver City book isn't being sold as prints. I've always thought that was one fine work of art.

Of course, I based my Chisos ore cars on the Silver City prototype so I'm biased. And I have the Mogollon (Woodie Greene) just a few miles from my home. 

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Thanks for the response and support for the paintings, Im usually dont show them in public.
The Imuris Porter has found a home...Ill contact the three folks who PM'd me in the order they contacted me...

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It has taken a fair amount of work, but trains are up and running again on the Torres & Prietas. The miners are blasting, mucking, and hauling ore to the bins,and the miner inspector is doing whatever it is that he does. It will be a while before I can get new photographs, but did dig out a few photographs from last October:




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Great photos Duane--but how did that SP Diseasal get there?

You and Woodie sure have got it right--ain't nothing like real sunlight for photography--but after just putting a new rubber roof on the trailer, I'm gonna hafta give some thought to cutting holes up there---

Herb 

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Hi Duane

Nice pics !

Cheers

Si.

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Herbie-I know how you feel about dismals, but the SP X-1 (shown on the TyP) is actually right at home. First used on the SP's narrow gauge Owens Valley line, she operated there for several years and helped take up the old rails. Then X-1 went to Mexico where she was used on the Cananea mining road and later "standard gauged". So, it is entirely possible for X-1 to be seen hauling ore cars, etc. in spectacular scenery as Duane has shown. Remember that there is a prototype for everything and this replicates the real thing. Now, I will rejoin my nitpickey friends under yonder rock.

Woodrow

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Now that you mentioned it Woodie, I remember reading about it --I think in one of Duane's books

Red Faced Herb 

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It took over 5 years of letters and negotiations to get 5 minutes of access to the loco, but I even got to sit in the engineers seat. Man I wanted to hit the "start" button and drive her back to the states where she would be safe!

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I'll promote the book-SONORA NARROW GAUGE by Mr. Ericson. Just a dee-lightful read and packed with cool photos. The railroad also had a GE 65 ton center cab and an old Alco S6 for their standard gauge operation. However, SILVER CITY NARROW GAUGE is still my favorite book, Mogollon is mentioned all through it!

Woodie

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Looks like she'll go a long way, with that big gas car behind !

Wonder if they carry hose-pipes ?

Cheers

Si.

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A big gas car-or a big ass car?

Not sure what it is, but word on the street is that the T & P has hired new laborers, and several flatcars of supplies and equipment were seen passing through Tucson via the Southern Pacific that were reportedly headed for border. Vamos a ver!

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That is a sugar cane word-bagasse...of course you gotta say it wit' de Ka-jun mouth hel jes' rot!

Outlaw

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Dudes..

This is one of my favorite topics...

Big A murican rocks..BAR's...

Or: ...Mighty fine rocks...or: , MFBAR's...

HSB..happy stuff Batman..!...

I could probably go on...

I have a story about a flying rock propelled by some rather strong stuff..straight up clean outta sight..it was a giant rock..prolly three feet thick and six across...trailing smoke..ala way gone...

That is the B A R story...in a nut shell

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Yeah...know what you mean on the acronyms as Ive been trying to get this big mess (BFM) straightened out on the Torres & Prietas (T & P). Nothing exciting, but it feels good to work on the railroad again.

First place that needed attention was a hump on the south side of the Rio Gila bridge:



Second place that was bugging me was the remaining sections of PECO code 800 rail. Cant argue with the durability and ease of installation for that stuff, but the "spikeheads" scale out to the size of a sombrero.

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Elmin , fellers..

I suspect you'll save enough on deesle to re-novate the church..in spite of locals protest about inquisitions and restoration of the true and only...etc..

Good job of shewing some progress..every day I get closer to being able to do ought more than type / talk trash...things is looking up in Oasis valley ...gateway to "Death valley."...

That sounds scary huh...?..

Foto of the las Vegas and Tonapah depot as it stands today in Rhyolite Nevadar ...


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The station at Rhyolite is one of my favorite pieces of architecture in Nevada-From experience I can say that it is hard to get the proportions of the curvilinear gables seen in Mission Revival architecture correct, and the just end up looking goofy on my models. BTW, what material did they use for the walls of the station? was it local stone?

Last edited on Sun May 13th, 2012 03:44 pm by elminero67

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Duane , fellers..

I think they are a form of breeze block..some sort of early version of cement blocks..looks like sand stone..but it ain't...

this whole town was built on the supposition that the ore was deep and big..stocks promoters..one mine was big and ran some few years...

the place flopped..but the boomtowns... having run southward as  time went on......the comstock..Tonapah..then Goldfield ..all big bonanza's...the thought was..{ I para phrase of course...}....hey..it could happen..sort of hollywood esque permanence...looks like permanence...etc..BUT..sell stocks..shares..get rich..get out...

The whole state and even the west is filled with strikes..but they seem to have petered out.Drilling is finding huge ore bodies...only whether they are cost effective or not...to mine..

.course...A  whole mountain at Rhyolite has been hauled down the hill through the mill and deposited in the valley below..

When that mine was going...there was 3000 people living in Beatty...now it is at 900...that was not too long ago..

It of course is a biz proposition as to cost of milling and values of ores..and can we make any monies at it..

By God if we build a railway .we can make er pay...

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Woodie's posting of his new internal combustion contraption (ICC)
http://www.freerails.com/view_topic.php?id=4059&forum_id=6

inspired me to post my own ICC.

Like Woodie's thingamabob, it is thrown together from discarded stuff, the drivetrain is half of an Athearn GP9, and the front wheels were the extra set tha came with the Bachmann 4-4-0. I haven't added pickups to the front truck, but it runs pretty good considering it was just junk. The body is a die cast bus body I liberated from the grandson whilst he was distracted. So far he hasnt noticed...


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ALRIGHT!!!

Woodrow

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Very cool

Rod.

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Got a little more on the Torres & Prietas' new railbus-still a bunch to do:



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Duane , fellers..

The bus looks like it could be winding down some SA road OR...Uuum railroad..ferro carril..de Tores de la..preit...etc..

Very nice..chicken crates for the top.?..


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Chicken crates...hmmmm

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You're either on the bus; or you're not ...

...We don't need no stinkin' chicken crates !

Nice work.

Si.

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Didnt get the chance to drag the Torres & Prietas outside to get some proper pics, but took a few in the eternally gloomy garage. First pic: The Torres & Prietas picked up a used piece of rolling stock from the Mogollon Ry-a good dusting and she was ready to haul passengers:



With the new bridge the Torres & Prietas had hoped to be able to haul longer heavier loads over the bridge, which had long served as a bottleneck for operations and limited the railroad to small, antiquated equipment. Below a relatively long train tests the bridge. The sixth car back from the locos is the first "phase II" Silver City, Pinos Altos and Mogollon RR ore car, with a 15-ton load capacity as compared to the earlier 10 ton ore cars:



Unfortunately, the Torres & Prietas hired a local engineer at a very reduced rate to build the bridge and after a few weeks of running the "phase II" ore cars and longer trains the safety inspector noticed a slight droop in the new bridge starting to develop...

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Duane-watch out...that dust was the "extra weight" the car needed to track properly. It was weighed to NMRA standards with excess dust!

Woodrow

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You call that half assed?! I can't wait to see it when it's done! Obviously you've never seen any layouts I make, they look terrible in comparison to your layout.:thumb:

--James:java:

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thanks James-I do consider the T & P somewhat poorly conceived as I just like building things. There has never been a plan. The one thing I learned from the T & P is to that the only way to learn and improve is by just doing it.

Last edited on Fri Jun 22nd, 2012 07:20 pm by elminero67

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HIYA,

Are those Grandt Line cars or did you free lance them?

I like em..

Rob Wright

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Those are Silver City ore cars. Grandt makes Gilpin cars. Duane is the SCPA&M historian, having written the ONLY book about the railroad! I believe they are scratch built.

Woodie

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close-but I cant take credit for scratchbuilding them; Gerald Styles of Firebox models (who also offers the ON30 SC, PA & M caboose) offered to put together an ON30 SC, PA & M ore car if I could provide drawings. I have about 20 "prototypes," but afaik Firebox never sold them.
According to newspaper accounts the ore cars were designed by the SC PA & M shops with all of the parts coming from Lima. In some of the historic pictures you can see all of the car parts stacked arund the shops, so I get the impression that the Sc PA & M just assembled them from knocked down kits provided by Lima. Besides the their similarity to the Gilpin cars, they are very similar to ore cars in period Lima advertisements. Here is a pic of them crossing the latice truss bridge that Woodie has modeled on his Mogollon Railway:

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Here's an old photo I found in a cantina near Boquillas, Mexico. Thought it might be of interest.




The T & P box car is at the Lone Star Smelter a few miles from Mogollon, NM. Those sacks seen are full of ore ready to be loaded in the car. The siding belongs to the 3 footer Los Pinos y Madera RR. Apparently it was too hot for anyone to be outside...except the photographer.


Woodie

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Dont think Ive been to that particular cantina, probably the only one Ive missed!
The boxcar is beautuful, Is it freelanced or loosely based on the real T & P?
Also, what are you using for your sacks or ore, like them too.

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Duane-the boxcar was built some years back, it is really a scenic piece. I had an old O scale box car kit which formed the basis, it was a 40 footer and in 1:35 it became a 30 foot car. The trucks are O scale arch bars with the axles narrowed to 35n3 (around 1" gauge). Since you asked, it is proto-free-lanced-jibba-jabber. I saw a photo of a TyP car in your Sonora NG book and while it ain't a faithful pit nicker copy, it does the job. I put the decals on it Thursday night, the car is maybe 5 years old.
The ore sacks are TAMIYA 1:35 sand bags (a bunch in their kit) which look like ore sacks and would work great in 1:48 also. Now, is that more info than you asked for? I could carry on...

Woodie

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That looks awesome. I envy you modeler types. I guess RTR stands for Ready To Rehabilitate. ;)

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Thanks for the compliment on the railbus, been working on it and other rolling stock a bit as of late and am hoping to finally get it outside and post some new photos of the changes. Mostly Ive been trying to get everything running smoothly and switching and running trains...BUT ive having trouble with wiring and was wondering if someone can help figure out what is going on...

I have a passing track in the smelter yard, looks something like this:


I operate just straightforward DC, no blocks, nothing weird. Everytime I throw either switch off the mainline, it shorts out. Doesnt matter which switch, or I can throw both, and it still shorts out. I ran this setup for years with no problem, then something just changed on it own. Ive isolated the passing track so no electricity runs through it, yet it still shorts out, execpt for every once in a while when it randomly decides to work fine...Any ideas? also, the switches are basic Peco ON30 switches, and please feel free to "dumb down" your response...I dont know anything about wiring...

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Minero fellers..

 

I , not being the rocket scientist..but , in the interest of activity..propose the cleaning of the blades areas of travel...if one blade touches one rail and a bit of loose brake shoes iron is crossing the "lectric gaposis.."..there goes the 'lectrons down both pathes...bad form..

If there is nothing visible..a bit of carressing with a bit of emery board ..sometimes on my DCC layout I would fold a bit of sand paper and press the blades closed upon it and then slide the paper abrasive thither..and yon...cleaning contact..this may encourage 'lectroons to follow the straight and narrow..

Yer problem is in the switches..might be heat has caused a gap to close..inspect the points with a  bright light and a magnifier ...you might jsut spot something amiss..

 

Charley

 

 

 

Herb Kephart
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Ok--Lets see if I can 'splain, whats going on.

We start at the top before the switch. For sake of discussion lets say that the left hand rail is +, RH-. as you have shown.

If both switches are set straight, the main is fine, but both rails of the siding are + because of the points touching the LH + rail.

If both switches are set for the siding, things on the siding are OK, but the main rails are both -, again because the points of both switches are touching the -, RH rail.

If one switch is set for the siding, and the other is set for the main, you have a short. because one set of points is touching the + rail, the other the - rail. All of the rail from the frog of one switch to the frog of the other is controlled by the position of the points. The "outside" rails are not affected.

Basic two rail wiring says that you have a pair of feeder wires at the point end of every switch. Also you must have a pair of gaps-- one in each frog rail, between the frogs. With "normal" right hand running, the gap in the main frog rail would be would be far enough below the frog of the top switch that the loco would stop (just past the gap), far enough before the switch that it didn't foul the siding. The siding gap would be above the lower switch frog the same distance, and for the same reason. This way the train will not try to run over a switch from the frog end, that is set against it--and also you will have no shorts.

Some HO switches of the snap-track variety have all this built in--you will have to ask someone conversant in the little stuff which do, and which don't--I don't know. But follow the above instructions on a sheet of paper, and you will see how it works- and has worked well since the late '30's when two rail (in HO) first came on the scene.

Any time that you have two sets of points facing one another, you need a pair of feeders on the rails between them.

Any time you have two frogs facing one another, you need a  gap in each of the rails between them.

Clear as mud---right?

Herb 

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You will need to add a gap in the rails coming out of the frog, and add feeder wires on the siding and main line.

Are the switches controlled by switch motors or are they manual. If controlled by motors I think you will find they can power route thus making them live frogs.

Sparky.

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The switches are manual.

Played with it a little using everyone's suggestions. Its looking like a combination of things, which is why it is frustrating to diagnose. I do have gaps-however, as the layout is in the garage it gets very hot-today well over 90. The gaps close as the rails expand, so they conduct electricity, not all of the time, but sometimes. As Charley noted, the switches are dirty too, and they also conduct electricity some of the time. Think Ive got it figured out before Woody sees this thread....

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Nope-I have noted your problem, Herb splained it. It does sound like those Peco switches have some problems. In a hot/cold environment, they go "south". Peco has a "live frog" but it is insulated with a minute piece of plastic between the frog rails. This may be the "crux of the biscuit". What to do? The devil says replace them, the nice guy says work on them, you know what I say.
Duane, you will need to take them up (if possible) and test them on the bench. I know this is not much help, but it is all I can figger out.

Woodie-powerless but running...

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Good point on the Peco turnout issues, so there may be more than two issues going on in what should be a very simple passing track.

The real issue is that the garage just isnt a good environment for the T & P. In addition to the heat (I'd estimate it hits 110 in there on a hot summer afternoon) and the dust, it is also infested with tiny little spiders, reminiscent of this epic Williaam Shatner movie filmed on site in Arizona:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XXdBBDg57Pg

or for a shorter version featuring William Shatner:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zGI86TeIEN8

A quick shot of the almost finished T & P railbus: still looking for chickens and goats...






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Duane-look down between the point rails and you may see some small phospher bronze contacts that "assure" continuity when the points are switched. One of these may be touching the OTHER rail and causing a short. I have noted this on the Texas Outlaws' layouts-they use Peco switches and all the guys are bald since they have pulled out their hair before shows when the layout had shorts!

Woodie

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Well-- there are "B" movies-- but that spider thing is a lot farther down the alphabet, I'm afraid.

A small piece of styrene, superglued into the gap will keep the rails from touching when they expand. Of course, then when its hot, and they expand, they might buckle--but that's a lot more prototypical!


Herb 

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Thanks Herb and Woodie, dont care what they say about you on other websites, you're alright in my book...

Like a true classic, you have to watch Kingdom of the Spiders a few times to catch the finer points. Dont know how Shatner didnt get nominated for an Emmy after that fine effort... I especially like the scene he saves the little girl from the spiders, then throws her to the ground in another pile of them, then he sprays her with some nasty DDT stuff, very heroic. Or the scene where he has 5-6 spiders on his back and he is crawling because the weight of those spiders is holding him down...If you cant tell I love bad western themed movies!

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Elminero fellers..

I say make chickens outta sculpy...this clay sorta oven hardening..

it is un cured PVC..which when baked in oven hardens up..baking it , can and should be varied by eye and by golly in oven..

ears and thin bits need lass baking..foil over thin bits help..

models can be added to after the fact..vasilene is a thinner for the raw stuff..add to any surface bonding is permanent..file / grind./ saw / chick / spindle / mutilate..

Goats may be a harder proposition , BUT..I have faith in yer talents..

elminero67
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No time for chickens, but did get the railroad outside and ran a few trains. Much has changed since the last time i posted photographs: first being an extension of the smelter yard. Not exciting, but was intended to be functional.Still havent finished the details at the smelter, just having a hard time getting too excited by it. The additional tracks, coupled with solving the electrical snafus (thanks all), has made it much challenging to operate:





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Duane-I really, REALLY like this! I was talking to a buddy about smelters and we decided that to properly model the Silver City smelter operation, it would take most of the back yard! You have the advantage of being an accomplished artist who can make the smelter appear to go on and on in the background. Beautiful work.

Woodie

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Thanks Woodie, Dont know about the "accomplished" part though...You're also right about the scale and dificulty in capturing a smelter in O scale. This is my third attempt at modelling the Comanche smelter in Silver City, each one gets less ambitious as I realize how difficult it is to capture the feel and scale of a smelter.
Here is the layout of te original Comanche smelter circa 1907. Bascically all Im trying to capture is an abbreviated version of the furnace itself (building 4). The real action railroad action would be the concentrator (building 2), which had non-stop action handling ore cars from the mines, and outbound concentrates to the smelter. these are the buidings I attempted to paint in the background

Last edited on Sun Aug 5th, 2012 09:53 pm by elminero67

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and for those not familiar with the Comanche Smelter in Silver City, New Mexico: The entire facility was served by 2' narrow gauge lines, while the standard gauge Santa Fe branch passed just above the smelter building. but below the concentrator.

Last edited on Sun Aug 5th, 2012 10:06 pm by elminero67

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Duane-

Really looks good, and as Woodie said the background adds tremendously to the overall effect.

If most of the railroad action was at the concentrator, why did you choose to model the smelter?

Chust vandering--


Herb 


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Duane

That backdrop and the whole scene looks fantastic, I love how you have captured the feel of the smelter and its surroundings in such a small area. Excellent work.

Rod.

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Thanks for the encouragement, strange how a few supportive words makes you want to finish a project

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How about these words, aptly spoken by Moe Howard to Larry Fine and Curly Howard-"Hey you...get to work you!"
Yeah, see?

Outlaw Troublemaker

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Yuk yuk yuk
Carl
Pasco,Wa.:P

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Herb-getting back to your question on why I chose to model the smelter...and the answer is, and Ive given it thought...I dont remember...

I suspect that I chose the lower portion (below the AT&SF tracks) of the Comanche Smelter as it offered more variety, i.e. the roundhouse and machine shop, both of which I modeled in the earlier version. I fought and struggled to try and make it work, but it was too much in too small of an area. As Woodie mentioned, it would take a whole back yard to model this smelter.

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I'm still chuckling over the electrical discussion. "lectroons" HAAAAA!


Your layout is always a blast (he he he... get it... smelter... blasting furnace... *groan* ) to see.

The smelter area looks great. Not sure about your feelings on the subject, but one thing that makes smelters interesting is all the tracks running between buildings. Maybe adding some, not quite historically accurate location wise, structures on the viewers side of the tracks would create that industrial canyon effect.

Whenever I drive by the Pueblo colorado smelters, I get a real sense of how big smelters were at the turn of the century. And the slag heap down there is miles long.

Griffith

Last edited on Fri Aug 10th, 2012 03:02 pm by Traingeekboy

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Griffith: You make a good point about the industrial canyons, and I will be adding buildings and details to give it that feel-because it is in the garage, I hope to make everything removable so I can keep the dust (and spiders) under control.

Going back in time, my first attempt at modelling the Comanche Smelter and its labryinth of 2' narrow gauge tracks in two 24" x 72" long sections, here is sketch of that attempt:



Will I didn't make it very far on this attempt before I got...er, side-tracked...I think it did have some good things going for it, particularly the layout, as the buildings (mostly mockups in the pics) and tracks were relatively faithful to the layout of the real smelter.

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Elminero Woodrow fellers...

I recall ..the railways of Arizona volumnes..XXXXX..?.has pitcehrs of the smelters around..Morenci ?..or one of them enci's...I do not have access ..

My point is , there are alot of extra wonky pitchers of tracks , buildings and trens.maybe your muse would...be piqued...

And other list dudes might take a look for inspiration..

Charley

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Vol 3...that's the one.

Woodie

elminero67
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Still need to pick up a copy(have a xerox), just cant bring myself to part with te $ people are selling it for

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Elminero Woodrow fellers..

The one with the baby gauges is a fabulous book.

.I think.:dope:......a bit muddled../ addled when it comes to books..that several hundred glass plates negative photo's for $80 is still quite a deal.

.I don't like the prices that some collectors / dealers try to get for the stuff..the thing to do is get them when they come out..it is nice to be able to squeeze the monies out tho'...

NOW..I am not sayin it is easy..my ex sister in lawr used to sit with my Ex and imagine how much my books are worth..in the scheme of things..it ain't that much...AND then try to sell all those arcane titles ...you'd be years in the process and still not sell 'em/a collector..whot is those guys..cadavers./ bone pickers..?..they want to give one price ..good bad and ugly..which is as it should be as they are taking the time risk investing...

But greedy sis in lawr..{EX} doesn't see that..I still have my books..thank you...first born..right arm..left arm...nuts...'scusde me..family channel and all..

There are a few books I want  , that  I don't have. These are mostly in areas which are rather more peripheral  to my main interest in the baby gauges...

SO there...books are near and dear to my heart..Essential to study  of the actual way things were...

Whot about that sonora Narrow gauge book..anybody got a copy of that one..?.

But I digress..L:

W C Greene
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Why don't you ask Duane about Sonora Narrow Gauge...he might know something.

Woodie

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Im think its a great book-but I'm biased towards those funky desert/mining railroads.

Im looking at options for the future of the Torres & Prietas. I had long assumed that when the kids left the house I would be able to use one of the empty bedrooms as an indoor home for the T & P.

Evidence would suggest that this assumption was incorrect...

evidence would also suggest that any attempt to negotiate using said bedroom for trains is not conducive to a peaceful and harmonious marriage...

Soooo, other options:

build a wall through the middle of my two-car garage,and have a roughly 10X18 room for the T & P.

downside: would cost about $500-1000 buckaroos, and if I move it would not help the value of the house or saleability. would need to install electric, heater/ac.

Buy an old rv type trailer, gut it and build a new T y P. Cost about $1000 buckaroos, and have an ugy rv outside the house...but if I do move, would be mobile, could even take it to a few trainshows if it doesnt look too much like an "abduction-mobile."

thoughts? ideas?

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Get outside in the back yard. It's a pain in the a$$ but it works for me.

Woodie...BTW, you will then seriously consider r/c

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Woodie-if I still lived in the desert it would be a no-brainer, the T & P would be outdoors, but we live on the "wet side" of Oregon.

Having said that, an outdoor layout is certainly a safer option than mentioning the bedroom again...

Last edited on Sat Aug 11th, 2012 04:50 pm by elminero67

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I have Charley--

Very well written, and good pictures also.

Name of the author seems familiar somehow--

Herb 

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Also on the negative side, wont be able to take layout outdoors:

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El minero , Woodrow , Herb , fellers...is that all of you ..?..

I think the idear of a bespoke trailer is quite good....really...if it is an eyesore to the up scale neighbors...paint it..red cross ...disaster relief vehicle...etc ...heartless bastards won't complain about that..unless there is a dee saster..?..;)

I vote for the trailer..once and done ..house move..no problem...hook er up..never tear down the layout again..

I think some of these chicks are jealous that we have such a passion...they enjoy having us tear down years of our hobby efforts..Plaques.. / ribbons..front pages on magazines..you are still a piece of crap..mow the lawn fool..and when you gonna quit foolin with those toy trains..?..

Course..it needs said...the Uuuum scale..of the railroad..might need some adjusting..I think your gauge is right..But..uuum..A fellow out in Tejas. he is doing this wild and unique thing..looks very good...you might want to log onto freerails..look up A certain Woodrow...google it..?..:dope:


The only thing about your railroading efforts ..that are Uum less than  stellar is the scale..I am here to rectify that err of your ways..yessir..

Please..tongue in cheek...BUT...:shocked:


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Hey Charry

Guess what lives in here---



Herb 

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Malcom Furlow?

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Elminero Fellers..

I think that is whur herb keeps his wimmins...the house is fer the train set..:bow:

Chols

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Close Charley--

It was a reefer in it's former life--I keep the bodies of people who disagree with me in there.

Gettin full though--gonna hafta dig a big hole soon.


Horrible Herbie 

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Herb-will you dig a DEEP-HOLE ?

Woodie

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Herb Woodrow , feller.s.

I have heard of "totem poles".."gin poles"...and "spar poles"...whenever I mentioned "de Poles." I get funny looks from the Po-litical po-leece...

I include a foto of my outdoor railway....materials..my Ex wife did not like piles of "stuff'...like this..I think it "riches..".....


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I'll hazard a guess that you a single man, Charley?

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Elmiero , Woodrow , Herb , fellers..

I am now...;) after twenty years of marriage and raising three kids....her two and my one...

I am also a grandfather..very proud of my grand daughter...she in the Portland zoo railway fotos...

It is weird...most times i dig it..sometimes i lament the loss of all that I built over the years...In Sparks..I didn't like that house..nice garden...but...I built that too..she kept the house..I made it easy for her to do so ., I can visit my Garden any time I want..doggie visitation....too...doggie lived in that house all her life..so it is / was not right for me to yank her outta as i was leaving...

Ya know..I just couldn't get no respect...moo hhahahahahahaha 

We get along scary well..I work on my garden..she cooks for me..I take showers and do laundry....when i am there driving around in the truck..

I moved to Beatty Nevada ...gateway to Death valley..I always liked this little town.." oasis valley nevada...yessir

It was 104 today ..in the shade...it generally is about ten degree's hotter in Las Vegas than here.....:shocked:  I stayed comfortable in my house..I was worried about being able to stay cool inside when it got HOT..outside...test results in...

[img]">

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Charley

Even though you split, you are still friends.

That's good

We are beating the h**l out of Duane's thread.

That's bad.

Herb 

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Just padding the post content to make it appear that something is actually going on in the T & P thread

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Duane , Herb, Woodrow, fellers..

I appreciate the kindness Elminer o...I am all over the map..apologies all round..

I treat this as a discussion..it is a on going chat around Duane most excellent modelling...

AND...the ex marriage is going so well , it is scary..Her mother and father lived apart for years..maybe the mold..or perhaps they were smarter than trying to make somthing work which wasn't .

My thread evading / abusing point is..it may be better to move on...especially if it can be cordial..wherein lies the rub..most are not ..it is the war of the roses..

We could probably re marry...we have shewn each other what for..and " I'll show you"...but I don't care to..she hasn't asked..and I haven't offered..I am happier ..in spite of being lonely...

I just turned 54..I don't have another mortgage in me..OR the desire to run the treadmill anymore..I have this old trailer.. I own it..I am building it as I live in it..it will be what I want..built how I want..and I will be able to repair it as I see fit..

With that..apologies and promises to Herb to not abuse his hospitality no mo...

Modelling content provided as buffer to lawsuit / defamation/ thread hijacking/ general malaise...

I started painting a Richard Kapuula figger..he over on the SE list..this guy is one inch scale..

Chol







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Yes-beautiful Beatty, mecca of the rich and famous, a true American garden spot...

I remember our firetruck breaking down there one summer while returning from fires in Washington. Walked every street in town. Played basketball in the park while it was 104. Some of the boys walked a little ways out of town to a strange house in the desert with an airplane at the end of the driveway...dont know what they were doing there, but they smelled like cheap whiskey and even cheaper perfume when they returned...

Firefighters and miners seem to be cut from the same cloth: In the pic below our wayward prospector has returned to the seldom photographed town of La Colorada for a night on the town:



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Elminero....feller.s..

Yes ...seems Howard Hughs crash landed out there..?...Don't know it for sure.but cheap whisky and perfume ....yup......a convenience store methinks...I thought it a plus when moving out here..but have not visited..:old dude:

And..it has been hot for a week..no news really as the whole country is hot.this was the test tho'..I have been comfortable inside at 104 f-ing out..that is good...

I fniished up  the figger..AND..I am souping up the bulkhead flat three point one...it and two other cars are going to the narrow gauge convention in Seattle..
They have not been in contests yet..

I have started another figger paint too..foto of him as he comes along.I better start putting these in the Excelsior thread ..to be right about things...






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Ill post a couple more pics from the most recent outdoor operating session with the disclaimer that there is a thumbprint on the upper left of all of the shots. I was eating greasy pizza and evidently touched the lens..

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Senor Miniero...., fellers...

Your fotos..could be..and  am so happy to see your modelling..have we forgotten the real time aspect of the 'net...

I thought...this could be the real deal..as s Woodrow's inspirational stuff..great job..and i can understand why you might not want to jump the scale ship.

I am going to be in on a mine car chassis build this weekend..I don't know how true to form this fellow wants to be..

I provided hm with "orchard " car wheelsets...we need get one or two or three wheels off rusty axles..then mount them on fresh axles I brought..I watched a fellow un bolted  a totally rusted up plow once by heating the bolts and nuts to  cherry red ...it just comes apart easy at that point..we shall see...



These parts are from " the Orchard car company...Cleveland Ohio"...I have a set of roller bearing pedestals which say that on their itty bitty little journal covers...


This is really lighter stuff than mine cars..but real light railway wheels are fair rare...

One of these is cracked along it's hub..but this fellow wants it for display only..so I gave him the cracked one...I have twelve more of this type..cast with round holes..and eight more cast iron with "T" spokes...enough axles and washers / wheels retainer bits..the wheels spin free on the axles..good for cornering..

These seem to be about 9" diameter..in fact..I shew a foto of a axle set I made for the fifteen inch gauge at Ffodrin..these are made with all the bespoke parts..nifty little washer / keepers with inlet for cotter keys etc..

The ones I gave seem to be homeade and rather less costly ..made on the line at some point..this will all get filmed and shewn...

I don't know anything about the orchard car company...mght be a mssion for one of you archivist types..?..original research..?...[img]">

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Sheesh ,  do rocket science too...?





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A little assistance from photoshop and the greasy pizza smear is completely hidden, well kinda....

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Duane-the fingerprint (where?) just gives the photo more character...as if it needed any more. Another wonderful photo of scenery that I love in a place I'd like to be.

Woodie

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You and me both, been missing the SW quite a bit lately, especially during the monsoon season when all of the flowers come out and everything turns green. It doesnt last long, but while it does, it sure is pretty.

Didnt mention it but the foreground was extended a bit about a year ago when I put in the buildings. Previously the tracks were precariously close to the edge. The next version of the Torres & Prietas will not have tracks right up to the edge...

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beautiful pictures:moose::moose::moose::moose:

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thanks Charles-hoping to get into the stock hauling business one of these days!

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great the grandkids ran off with the stock they like my toys better than theirs

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Gentlemens ,

As an un biased observer...I can say without question..Our...Uuum..your ..toys are much better than theirs ...So there..


Rather nice sunset out here in the west...thunder storm of rather major import previous...

Charley



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Truth is-the grandkids toys are more expensive than mine

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Another rescued shot from the "greasy thumbprint" series...

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Man, that's beautiful! Just as we have come to expect...thumbprint or not.

Woodie

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Hey--listen up pal-

If greasy pizza is what it takes to come up with photos like that---

May you never rust  (like a Jeep)

(kinda a inside joke --info for you who have not suffered)

Herb 

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:moose::moose::moose::moose::rah:

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Looks like we had a visitor from the Clifton/Morenci narrow gauge on the T & P:

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360º Ojuela brige photo

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Howdy Aletorr, I had to check out the link to be sure it wasn't some kind of spam, etc. Very nice old photo and is OK. However, please explain things like that before posting the link, I tend to see just a link as trouble. Besides, we like to know who is posting and what the post is all about. I hope you understand.

Woodie-the Outlaw troublemaker

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Welcome to our humble little website, and thanks for posting the link. Feel free to introduce yourself and jump into conversations anywhere.

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Nice pics Elminero !

Cheers

Si.

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Thanks, Good to hear that someone enjoys them

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Yeah just post some more ;)

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We just don't have enough photos yet to form an opinion. You will need to send more, many more before the vote comes in. Goodness, this sounds like a Charley message....OK...

You know what I think anyway, so there!

Woodie

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I'll second Woodie on whether to form an opinion. How about we pick the best of say, 3 dozen or so photos?

Seriously, I really enjoy your modeling efforts - beautiful modeling, and beautiful photos. I hope there's more to come!

Keith

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Fellas....gentlemen....Keith

Woodies' comments on "Charleyspeak" made me chuckle, Charley certainly has a unique and entertaining way to communicate. I vote that we name a font in honor of him...Old Charley Sans Serif?...Charley strikes me as a guy with no patience for serifs... 

I appreciate the comments and support. I dont know if Ill be able to get outside for any more photographs of the Torres & Prietas this season. Seven-day forecast here on the wet side of Oregon predicts a continued trend of gloom and rain for the foreseeable future...no chance of sunlight, kinda hard on the plaster to roll it outside in a downpour...this time of year I get highly unmotivated, so forgive me if I'm detached and uninvolved... 

Lately been working on Arizona Narrow gauge stuff. Flying down to Phoenix on weekedns to get out of the rain. Walking and mapping right of ways, collecting photographs of the Coronado railway, Hackberry, Helvetia etc...The question is, what to do with it?

Also been working on a history of the american stamp mill. Big project. Dont hold your breath on this one.

Not to mention the garage has been taken over by my partially disassembled 1948 Willys...difficult to say which is more of a mess at this time. I know, put more water in the soup, better times are a comin.

 

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Well, whatever you post, I will gladly enjoy!

So, you've been down in Arizona. Hopefully, does that mean you'll be publishing something on the Hackberry and Iron Queen RR? Or the Coronado Ry? That would be awesome!

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Ooooh...the H&IQ RR, shortest and narrowest with only one leetle Porter. Coronado RR was class 1 compared to the former. Carry on...

Woodie

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dos leetle Porters...

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Due to copyright issues, I won't post the historic pics of the Hackberry RR and its dos leetle Porters...but here is a quick shot taken a few weeks back of a dry stack retaining wall on Arizona's "other" 20" narrow gauge line near Prescott, Arizona(locals prefer to pronounce "Prescott" as "Preskit", almost rhymes with "biscuit". Whenever I talk to locals I intentionally mispronounce it, just to put a little sand in their bikini):



And a recent shot of the Torres & Prietas with Hackberry-style ore cars at the mining camp of Douglas



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Interesting.... Captured the bridge very well. Terrain looks very correct. Thanks for the view. Aj

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Duane, I think that that is one of the best shots of the T&P that you have posted recently.


Herb 

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Thanks Herb

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Elmineroo, fellers..

Funny stuff.... I laughed out loud..nobody heard..might be the Chica- choo-choo- cadaver,,heard and is homing in just now..heat-farade-vizion....and all .....scary things..go bump in the night...

Great foto of the model..as usual..everyone of them are inspirational.

I was in Eureka the other day..and it rained rather alot...and all the way outta there too..



Foto of the landlocked Geeps...finally behind a fence which slows the artiste community a bit..

I would like to know more about the Prescut like a bisquit 20" {?} gauge...I never even heard of it...?

The Coronado-ish baby gauges are among the neatest ever.,...


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Charley-Looks like Eureka, dreary, wet, overcast...There is not much written on the "Prescut like a bisquit" 20" line. David Myrick did a brief, but good story on it in his Railroads of Arizona Vol. 5. It wasnt nearly as extensive nor dramatic as the Clifton/Morenci narrow gauge lines, but it had its own flavor and had connections (not physical, but historical)with the Clifton Morenci narrow gauge as well as some of the mines and narrow gauges RRs covered in that obscure book on mining railroads in northern Mexico...Sonora Narrow Gauge or something like that...I may get off my kester and publish what I have someday-but everytime I get motivated to publish something like that I get discouraged as these little Rrs are a small niche market, and the lack of quality RR history magazines and journals that I'd want to publish in.

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Duane , Woodrow fellers..

I actually was able to buy that Sonora Narrow gauge or something book at the Narrow gauge convention...read it..good job...

I need get my Rlys of AZ..vol three out and look at those 20" gauges again..


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Another good source is the Finescale Railroader 2004 Logging, mining and industrial annual. Alot of photographs and info that wasnt in the Late David myricks book. And the collectors havent driven the cost up yet...

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And whatever you do, DONT purchase a copy of Silver City Narrow Gauge-the publisher ripped me off and never paid me, (and is still selling copies. may all of his trains derail onto the floor...

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Duane:

 

I'm sorry to hear your financial arrangement with the publisher did not work out.  That said, I do have a copy of your book and it is a magnificent source of information - I refer to it frequently.  You dug up a lot of photos and data for this pretty obscure little line.

And, for readers of this thread, you really need to get a copy of Duane's other book - Sonora Narrow Gauge.  There is so many interesting mining lines shown here, you'll get loads of modeling ideas.


Keith

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Elminero, fellers..

I can offer the knowledge that small claims court will drag him into court...collecting..?..

I am sorry to hear that all is not peachy in the world of wee trens,,..the hobby..,.I knew this..of course..not your own particular..

BUT..there are people out there..doing un scruple..sad thing..even a larger scale of my stuff / your stuff...on national levels..mankind being un kind..even evil ..imagine that..

We live in pretty good times..at least on my block...so far..Uuuum so good..we eat regular..sleep under rooves.... most rather temperate conditions..might be the fellow in the cardboard box is not so totally comfy...

I want to say...most people who do foul..end up getting foul..karma..dharma...they live there..punishment enough...usually...

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Agreement on both of Duane's books. I have a great tale about finally getting the Silver City book (another publisher who needs a whoopin') and the Sonora book in which the author wrote a message about "two W C Greenes" on the cover page. I treasure these books and re read and check them out often.
On that Myrick AZ vol 3 book-get your debit cards, bank drafts, kids' college money, sell blood...whatever you can to get a copy (if there are any left). The prices are that high!

Woodie

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Woodrow Elminero fellers..

Good morning from the Pacific coast..ish...

In the era that the Rlys of AZ came out...I think pre-internet ,the british narrow gauges and industrial european { feldbahn } stuff was but a wispy rumour..{over here,,!..}...

The Baja california railways book was a good early one..rather thin on neat glossy large format photographs...But in those days there was very little available on this Genre of railway..

Gilpin tram  { the first book }..was rather earlier than the Arizona series..Railroads of Nevada vols I-II..were 1965 ish very early and very good for their day..those by David Myrick as well..

Sugar trains 1979 was a gold mine of narrow gauge railways and small odd ball lokeys...Then the matching pictorial...coveted but un affordable in those lean times..

I have been compulsive about having books..a fellow really needs get them before they are out of print..if you are going to have them at anything like  a reason able price..

That said..I am slowing down..the latest "Railways of lake Tahoe basin..?.." , I passed ....so far..My interest is narrower now..

When that fellow prints the book on the Biscuit area trams I will need get that one..

It looks as if I'll be getting a place to live forever more....sooner rather than later..means I can put my book shelves in and have all my books at my fingertips..AND... some model railroad space and a proper workshop..this is good news..I been talking alot of trash ..and not shewing any thing built...

A sad state of affairs..

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Indeed, like Bob Dillon said, the times, they are a changin...
I think most people would agree, that more information is generally a good thing. It has brought people like ourselves out of the woodwork(I was going to say closet, but that has a different connotation), where we can share ideas and photographs etc...but at the same time it seems to be killing the market for magazines and books.

I suspect one of the side effects is that magazines and books like MR and NG&SL Gazette are trying to broaden their audience-which to me means very short, bland articles(Im convinced either of those magazines could condense the history of the D&RG into one paragraph...).

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Emineminero , fellers..

Attention spans are not whot they used to be..mine getting longer..most getting shorter..?..








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Interesting WPA stencil on that boxcar, wonder what the story is on that?

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El min , Woodrow , fellers...

Yeah ..I wondered..i always enjoyed that ....Uuuum...Works progress admin...the whole thing of putting people to work..not as a political statement..but that...like a lumber camp...or the forest service..Chain gangs..?..Went I went to the Army It felt kinda like joining an organization..:slow:.....

I noticed that and wondered myself..No idear..really..the boxcar might have been in service then..BUT...that end is not the end of a boxcar..it is shortened ...the other end is boxcar..this end..not..where the wood came from..the sheet of planks..?..maybe the park there has infos..a pitcher of the sign to name the park if you care to follow up the inquiry..inquiring minds wanna know..






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Symbolism?

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Well, the sign isn't bi lingual. Ist das richtig? Si, mui bueno...
That would make a cool thing to put on some old boxcar in the weeds, how about getting a full-side shot? Another road trip?

Woodrow

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Woodie wrote-

"Well, the sign isn't bi lingual"

Yeah-- in the very least it should be in Arabic in case some poor terrorist is looking for something to blow up-----

Herb 

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Woodrow Elmineroe , Herberte

The thing was partly due light and partly due the idear that straight on shot was illegible..this angle got the relief shewn in sunlight..etc etc..

And the illegible aliens aren't taking any jobs out there...the mining is pretty much shut down...

The big time shews are going gang busters only a hundred miles or so north eand east...big trucks..open pit mining...boomtown...the Carlin trend...is sorta the central of these...

I found a neat bit on the baby gauge out in / above Death valley..Ryan..the colmanite / Borate mine...Borax....this line still exists on public lands..and very nice..in a dez sort of way//

Link included..

http://ghosttownexplorers.org/california/babygauge/babygauge.htm

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After partially hijacking Martin's thread, I thought Id continue the story here. A condensed version of this appeared in the Narrow Gauge & Shortline Gazette a few years back. I apologize if it is a little offtopic from the Torres & Prietas RR

Back when I was a touch younger I worked as a firefighter for the United States Forest Service. Good times, got paid to see some of the most beautiful country in the US. One summer, I accepted a position on a remote island off the coast of Alaska. Before I left, I did a little research and found that on this island, which was about 70 miles long and 40 wide, several abandoned mining towns were located, which I figured would be easy to hike to. I figured wrong. As I found out, getting around Chichagof Island was not easy...First of all, the island has the densest Alaskan Brown Bear poulation in the US, with three bears per square mile. Because of this, USFS employees were required to carry a loaded 375 bolt-action rifle at all times. Its no joke. Not only was walking around the rainforest somewhat unsafe, it was almost impossible to walk anywhere as the growth was so thick that you couldnt see the bears or get a shot off if you did, and ground so marshy that even walking a few feet off of one of the few roads on the island was a really, really bad idea.

Having said that, I soon learned from the locals that not only did a couple of the abandoned mining towns have narrow gauge railroads, but rumour had it that one of the narrow gauge locomotives was still at one of the ghost towns. As both me and the oldtimer telling this story had a few cold ones in us, I didnt take it too seriously. But nothing else to do without TV, radio, phone and lots of daylight, I grabbed a coworker and we set off to play the role of "mythbuster".

The first two attempts to find the ghost town and narrow gauge railroad failed. Although there was a road within 1/2 mile, the forest was so thick, swampy and downright nasty that we couldnt find the townsite. On the third attempt, I caught this out of the corner of my eye:


Last edited on Sun Dec 2nd, 2012 10:58 pm by elminero67

Charley
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Elminero, fellers..

That is cool. the apocryphal tale gone true .....

A fellow out in Fallon Nevada { Jim Walsh }... has three lokeys...two are rust buckets and worse..one runs from time to time at Carson /Nevada state rly museum...

At least two of these are from Alaska..he said that after dragging them out of the bush...the locals tried to claim them..moral of the story is ..get ownership..before hauling them out..

The one you shew is  in the condition of most..,note the driver wear..

The one in running condition..in a barn...stored lo these hundred years..wul...

Uuum..the Heisler at Sumpter is a neat case..and there is one of the baby gauge lokeys at Ryan in Death valley..just seen on a web site..A AL plymouth with a re motor off a 30's ? era chev..as the one at Furnace creek..his brother..

Thanks for shewing that..and a neat story ...


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Charly--

Driver is missing in photo--was he not wearing something photogenic?

Herbicide 

Charley
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Herbie ,fellers.....

Uuuum lunch break...working the ore bins doors..always a fast moving operation...
:old dude: We are planning a visit..a safari..a running battle with snakes Burro's and lizards..fotos will be made..

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Visited the holy of holy sites...fotos show...







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Charlie:

Thank you for posting the photos - I'm getting a lot of education from your postings.

Keith

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Yep, nice stuff from out in the desert. Little #2 (above) was built as an 0-4-2t and I believe that it lost the trailing truck when it was assigned to work the "hi line" above the Coronado incline. This lokie and 2 sisters were abandonded on the hillside near the old enginehouse and sat for many years until "rescued" by Phelps Dodge Co. #5 & #7 were also rescued and are on display in other places.
"And now you know the rest of the story" ...Paul Harvey

Woodrow

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Woodrow , fellers...

Keith , thanks for the encouragement..

I asked and one of the wee lokeys is in Stafford AZ...in pieces..apparently stored safe..the bits.they were going to restore and use it.but found another train set / lokey..?..



The other..?..I do not know where it is..or which of the nomads...are in each place..?..,

More fotos from the barrage...






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Charley:

Thank you for posting more photos. On the 0-4-0T (was that an 0-4-4T in an earlier life?), did the steam cylinders oscillate up and down along with the side rod action? Seems like a very simple valve gear on the loco.

I like the look of the weathered and small ore cars.

Keith

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Keith , Woodrow, fellers..

I think the term is   "Inside "stephenson link motion...the odd curvy bits whot the linkage acts upon are inside the frames..the motion is transferred to the outside by rods which pivot in the little frame mount bearings..


This all inside stuff......much to the chagrin of shop forces everywhere..BUT...they do not get knocked on line side impedia...

Waddling cylinders were tried very early in steam development..never went far..BUT..I hear somebody saying..possibly Herbie...HEEEEEEEEYA ..waida mninute here..

he says..one in Taiwan in xxxxxxx year..on xxxxxxx .railway used them for a time...booowhhhaahahaaaaaahahahaha

More ..the last of the foto du Phoenix barrage..



Radial coupler ..mounts way for'ard to allow coupler to swing with cars on sharpish curvatures....










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You did a good job photographing ol'#2 at the former Arizona Mining Museum. Seems like everytime I photograph her all I get is the steel fence around it.
I say the former mining museum as it has been closed, bureaucrats felt they could turn it into more of a kids museum. Guess us big kids dont count, and the kids loved the mining museum anyway.

Here is what the underside of one of them narrow gauge Porter Locomotives looks like:





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Duane and Charley:

Thanks again for posting the pictures of the Coronado and the Alaskan stuff.

Keith

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Duane:

I don't mean to be veering away from the dry southwestern area of your layout, but there are/were some narrow gauge sites even in the Midwest.

Here is a photo taken at the Homestake Mine in the Black Hills area of South Dakota.  I think this trackage was 22" and 15", but this is a guess.  I was impressed by the dual gauge track.


Another find, years ago, was this 3' gauge larry car.  This was used by the Quincy & Torch Lake in the Upper Peninsula of Michigan to haul coal from the lakeside coal dock  (Portage Lake connects to Lake Superior) a short distance to the Quincy Mining Co. stamp mills.  These ran off of overhead electrical wire and there were two of them tipped over in the brush.


Keith

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Holy smokes miner man...

That is cool..very very...:cool:

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Yeah Charlie, I agree 102%

Thing is, I would want to bring them home with me.


Herb 

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Great pictures guys! I need to get up to Phoenix and see #2 soon. When I was in Safford I found a 2' gauge amusment style train runing at the science center but couldnt find a trace of #7(?). Would like to know where she got off to. Question about those Quincy Mining cars. Do they have different sized wheels on powered trucks?
Thanks. -Dan

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To all absolutly great pics. Great stuff for the idea banks.

                    Clif K

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Dan asked about the Quincy mining cars, and whether they had different sized wheels on the same truck? My recollection is yes, they did - the larger wheels were on the electric motored-axle. I have a few more of these cars somewhere, but need to locate them. I'll post those if and when I find them.

Keith

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Dan asked about the Quincy mining cars, and whether they had different sized wheels on the same truck? My recollection is yes, they did - the larger wheels were on the electric motored-axle. I have a few more of these cars somewhere, but need to locate them. I'll post those if and when I find them.

Keith

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Thanks for the info Keith. Interesting stuff. Would love to have seen one as delivered.
-Dan

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Larry Cars? Never heard of them, but they are very interesting. Dont know what gauge the Homestake used, but it looks like Lionel 3 track rail...

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Duane:

I may be misusing the name, but my understanding is they were self-propelled coal dump cars, presumably shuttling from the Quincy coal dock to the nearby dump for the stamp mills.  I wish I'd paid more attention to them when I last saw them in 1978.

I found two more images of the cars that might explain more about how they were constructed.  The brush around the cars was very thick, so good views were limited (I forgot to bring my railfan's chain saw with).







Like all the other Quincy rolling stock, bodies were wood with metal accessories.  I think this part of the lakefront has been "cleaned up" extensively in the past 30 years, so I would assume these are no longer there.  Maybe one of the local museums picked them up?

Keith

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Great find. Hopefully they ended up somewhere they could be preserved...At mining sites, cleaned up isnt always an improvement.

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Good pictures. Thanks for the follow up shots. Good to know people are recording this stuff before it gets "cleaned up".
Railfan chain saw.... not a bad idea....
-Dan

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"Rare" photograph of the Comanche Mining Co. smelter in Silver City. I don't photograph the yard/smelter side of the Torres & Prietas as it is more functional than scenic, and the backdrop perspective looks wonky with low angle shots (not to mention the yard is always a mess because the "dead track" has more cars than the active roster):

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Neat Photo!


Herb 

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Yes Duane, that is a nice smokey, seedy kind of photo and portrays the smelter quite well. I like the extra height on the ore car in the center, my line just built larger cars to carry more ore...from 12 tons to 16 tons and whatta ya git?

Woodie

elminero67
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Another day older...

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Looks real nice to me!

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D'oh! derailed ore car

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Elminero ,fellers..

I wasn't gonna say,...Me , knowing you did that to check us for nattering nabobismus...

I didn't fall for it..m,oohahahahahaha

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Details, Details------



Herbie 

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Actually it IS prototypical. "Derailments were a daily occurance on the SCPA&M"...How do I know this? Duane wrote it in his book! My line follows the same prototype and we do have daily derailments, I wouldn't have it any other way!

Woodrow

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Thanks for posting the photo of the smelter scene - lots of atmosphere in that photo

Keith

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While waxing nostalgic on my attempt to model it, thought i'd post a couple more pics of the Comanche Smelter. This large complex was served by both the AT & SF branchline to Silver City, as well as the 2' Silver City, Pinos Altos and Mogollon:


And a detail of the smelter with slag pots being switched by Shay #2, the former Gilpin RY "Russell"



I did a three dimensional drawing of the overall complex for the Silver City Narrow Gauge book, but lost half of it:From bottom to top is the brick roundhouse, the long building with sidings was the machine shop, while the smelter itself is next to the smokestack. The Santa Fe Railroad ran at the far left, while the other lines were the 2' SC, PA & M railroad, which was owned by the Comanche Mining Co:

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And here was the plan for my first attempt at making an ON30 model of the Comanche Smelting & Mining Co complex. It was based on two six foot long sections built to modular "standards"
I dont think it was a bad plan, just tried to fit too much into too little space, the turntable and roundhouse took up alot of real estate:

elminero67
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And here its is!
My very first attempt at modelling the SC PA & M. Its amazing how fast you learn and how much you improve when you get away from the computer and armchair...

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Geez. That is pretty embarrassing. Another view of the ill-fated smelter modules. Big learning curve, in addition to learning to not try stuffing too much into a small area, I also realized it wasnt that much fun modelling a specific prototype and time. Too limiting, especially when you see something outside of your prototype that you want to model.  And I learned that modelling slag just doesnt look good, it looks like black oatmeal.



Last edited on Wed Dec 12th, 2012 01:27 pm by elminero67

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Elminero ,fellers..

Thanks for the fotos...that Shay could probably be quite effective in 1:35th...scale..I'm just sayin...

Cholly

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Wow, Duane, thanks for posting all the smelter information. That proto shot of the shay switching two-truck slag pots would be interesting to model!

I like seeing the layout of the trackage at the real Silver City smelter, too. It was always hard for me to figure out where the tracks all went. Your sketches clear that up.

Also, thanks for posting your track plans of the smelter area. Do you still have these sections, or have they been dismantled? Some nice switching opportunities with a limited number of trackage.

Keith

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Ill post a few more pics of the smelter if I can dig them up.
Keith-I dismantled those sections, but did recycle the buildings and backdrop (and rail, foam, bushes, screws etc...I am very frugal). The switching opportunities were somewhat limited as I never was able to get the turntable working, or the line above the smelter as it required another section for the switch.

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Shame that it didn't work out for you.


Herb 

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Elminero , Woodrow , fellers..

You have inspired....many..the layout is proof of concept..repeatable..expandable..

I want to tell you how very good it is..the plaster "temps" are quite good , this sort of thing is fun..

Does not need meet any standard..{anybodies standard}...it is fun..a hobby.

Your effort inspires others to do some belly-ing up to workbench ..hopefully....

Thank you fer that..


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Duane: the obvious question - will you be rebuilding the smelter again? I have always been fascinated by the SC, PA, & M Ry's smelter and trackage. I have been tempted to model it, and always appreciate everyone else's work that have modeled smelters. The only other smelter models I recall seeing are of course, Woodie Greene's model, and Lind Wickersham's in Gazette about 25 years ago. A neat industry and a neat model you built of it.

Keith

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Very interesting stuff!

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As always,thanks. As for Keith's question on "will I rebuild the smelter?" I think I will in some version or another. Hopefully by spring will have a better idea of a perminent location for the Torres & Prietes.
Long term, im thinking about going to a larger scale. Below is some land held by the family that I hope to retire to someday (the town of Mogollon is up in the mountains in the background, San Francisco River below in forground)...been daydreaming of building a large scale narrow gauge snaking along this 1:1 scale mesa to a mining town that clings to the slope...

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Elminero...Woodronero..Naro de well...Si , Herbie.feller.s.

Neat foto ..the idear of building a model of an actual place..your model there etc..

course most people do this in some sense..as in "Colourado"..or..NCNG..or Westside...

But..in close proximity...the actual defiled..or canon..or I have/had in mind an actual sort of four or five square miles for the Latest incarnation of the Excelsior Railway.

.A small town..with a mine..actual..a river..actual..and a creek meeting said river..

Just puts it in perspective..I find it that much more exciting..

AND...whot pray is your idears on a scale...?...Hhhhmmm..Woodrow wants to know..

OR..16mil scale..the brits use "O" standard...1 1/4" gauge as two foot..

45 mil garden tracks as 2'..7/8ths inch per foot..quite large..but a great scale for modelbuilding..

A list/web site...http://www.7-8ths.info/index.php

Probably the most friendly..is 1 :35th as two foot..you have several dizzle side rod critter...On30" equipment is spot on ..the stuff is plentiful..easy to see /use / bash..

The "T" boiler shay being the most egregious example of the corruption of man ....

Ask Woody..the Salvation army is over his place regular..they get no success over there..they out there ringin their bells..singin..praise be..Woodrows soul..etc etc..


He is inside with cotton balls in ears..grinning ..building a crane or somat..


Moo hahahahahahahaha:apl:

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HIYA...

If I had a chunk of mountain side like that I 'd Put in a 10 inch gauge 5" scale line!!!
You could use old mine rail. ( 2 lb. a yard???) and landscape timbers for ties.
Best of all, you could put a real load behind your loco while landscaping for the house or cabin!!

Smokebox

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The San Francisco River...runs to Clifton, AZ...and you know what's there! Imagine a 2 footer running alongside (where it could) the river to connect with the 20" Coronado RR. Lets see...18" (mines), 20" CRR/ACC, 24" MRy (SCPA&M), 36" CRR, 56 1/2" AT&SF...the mind boggles.
Now Charley needs to comment again.

Outlaw Troublemaker

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10" gauge is a littel bigger than I was thinking, but it sounds like a blast. Actually I've been eyeballing those cute little 1:20th scale live steam Accucraft "Ruby" 0-4-0 locos...wouldn't be too hard to make it look like one of the ACC Porters.

Here is the wacky part of my plan. At one point the canyon narrows ("boxes up" in local terminology) to the point where at the top of the canyon, the walls are only about 60 feet accross, but is well over 200 feet deep. Just the place to build a 1:20th scale version of the Ojuela suspension bridge: I didnt get a pic of the narrowest part, but it is just upstream from this pic:

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Elminero ,Woodronero....fellers...nero du wells...

Looks like evil Kin-evil would jump that in a flash..no mean feat for a guy like that..

If you are looking at gauge one steamers..45 mil/ 1.75 inches gauge..the new accucraft things are wonders..they run good..look good..and have .....{!}..good prices...as in realistic givin what they are ..

I am a bit fuzzy as to whot is available in the larger scales today..call that "G" as in garden scales..this is a fuzzy term too..mostly settled on 1:20.3 as that makes the 45 mil /1.75 inch gauge a honest three foot..

There is an Accucraft SE..{seven eigthts}..lokey out which is quite good ..I saw it ...at the NGC..I cannot recallwhot proto type it is..?,,

Here is a link to the lokey..a pannier tank 0-4-0 ..this represents  atwo footer on gauge one track...

http://www.accucraft.com/modelc/AC77-501-C.htm

I think .....whot are you doing an outdoor railroad...?..follow your muse of course..I once had a garden railway..it was very enjoyable..for ten years or so...I ran out of idears..and the necessity of making everything weather proof wore me down eventually...


Quite nice tho..making tracks in the real dirt using real wood and bolts and stuff..writ small..but...

That is my comment on that..merry Christmas ever bodies...new years to follow..in a separate message..

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That lokey looks neat, and for outdoor 1/13 makes sense to me.

But I know what you mean about making things weatherproof. PITA!!

Herb 

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Didn't think too much about the weatherproofing, the climate near Mogollon can be surprisingly harsh considering it is only 100 miles north of the Mexican border. However, unlike where Herb lives it is fairly dry and things dont rot, mold or rust.

The wind is the real concern; if I were ever to seriously consider doing a 60' suspension bridge accross the canyon the winds there can be quite strong. Wouldn't want to recreate the Tacoma Narrows bridge.

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Yep, I could get into a large scale operation since I now have a whole back yard/around the house area to build in...BUT...not only do I have my beloved layout in the yard, I also have an On20 mini layout and now a 4 by 6 HO/HOn3 layout which needs scenery! Sooooo, I have my "hands full". Good luck Duane, Mogollon is waiting.

Woodrow

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I took a look at that Accucraft loki too. Man, oh man, if I only had a spare $995. How much dirt and rock would you figure I would need to build the Longfellow incline in my backyard?
Dan B

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Elminero , Woodrow ,fellers..

So..Uuum..you movin..?..

Any comment on the large scale 0-4-0..?..


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Like the bigger Accucraft, may end up going that way.
Not moving, just dreaming.

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Jumping back a few pages to the smelter, just dug out a few pics of the Comanche smelter at Silver City:

Ruins of the smelter stack. Silver City had its own brick plant, and most bricks in SW New Mexco originated from there. Nice color, but very soft and crumbly (as in don't try to hang a door or window in it, just falls apart if you sink an anchor screw).



And ruins of the roundhouse. The Comanche/ SC, PA & M owned a limestone quarry about three miles from town in Chloride flat, and used it quite a bit. The walls of the roundhouse were the same red brick as the smelter stack.


And in the ruins along the creek where 100 years of "junk" was deposited. If you look closely in the lower left you can see a yellow tape measue over a slag "skull", which is the hardened slag dumped from the slag pot seen in the vintage smelter picture I posted a few pages back. From the skull we can determine the dimension of the narrow gauge slag pots. And the 1954 Chevrolet panel delivery is pretty cool too!

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Elminero Woodronerio,fellers..eieio...

Neat pitchers..thanks fer thems...


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Great pics, and I love your idea for an outdoor layout in that canyon!

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Things have been quiet down on the T & P:



but to quote Bob Dylan, the times they are a changin: The Torres & Prietas has been dismantled to make room for a new, improved layout. New thread will be a comin:

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We'll be watching for it.

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Elminero Woodrow Fellers..

Glad to hear you chime in..the cat looks guilty..but if I play it cool..he {the boss} won't throw something at me..cats are cool like that .."who ..me ..?"...

I was thinking..and I will give up my secret plan..the oh so bog common bachman {cold water brooks 0-6-0...} is quite the candidate for making a 0-4-0 ..haven't looked at the guts..but ...uuum..move the cylinders..boom boom...

Course..I think it would not be so good for quarter inch..seems a natch for the Woodrow scale..

Jus sayin..

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You had better start swimmin' or you'll sink like a stone...mo' Dylan...
Duane-I hate to see a sawzall attacking the layout, hopefully the rather large feline will prevent such shenanigans.
Watch out for Cha-wee, he's fixin' to do something strange...he's been visiting the Little Ale-e-inn out in Ely. Next up he will be modeling Area 51 and the 2 foot gauge which runs there. Well since it's alien, maybe 3 feet or more.

Boudreaux

Charley
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Woodrow , Eliminero fellers.

The Alien gauges..By D. Erecis0on or someat..treatese n little known Nevada NG lines...

Some relics exist..

Hey..I resent that..



Underground sites to rear...

elminero67
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He is located suspiciously close to Area 51...

Si.
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Nice RR elminero...
...you 67 vintage ?

Charley knows more about AREA 51 than is good for his health...

...as Dirty Harry would say :-

" There's nothing wrong with shootin' ; as long as the right people get shot "

Yas...yas...yas... ( as they say in rural England ; whilst cleanin' the double 12 shotty ! )

Cheers

Si.

Badges ?












Nar...

Traingeekboy
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i just saw that you are starting anew. I'm speechless.

The shot of your cat reminded me how realistic your rock work is. I hope we can get some more of your craftsman ship to look at soon.

:)

elminero67
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Thanks Traingeekboy.

To quote Bob Dillon (who, btw, is a avid follower of the T & P);

"I was a-going to start a new thread, but reckoned I'd just keep the old one a-going."

Perhaps I am lazy, or perhaps I don't want to risk losing hard-earned name brand recognition (ha!) in the transition...
But here goes, with apologies as I have two threads a-going, so Im trying to put different stuff here and the other website.

Way back during WWII, the defunct Torres & Prietas railroad was purchased and reopened by a new corporation, the Arizona Consolidated Copper Co. As a footnote, I hope followers of the T & P will jump on this rare opportunity to invest in this new corporation which a certain administration calls a "slam-dunk" of an investment.


(please make checks available to my esteemed business associate, Col. Bernie Madoff.{you can forward your checks to our affiliate at Atica NY, C/O Federal Pound-you-in-the A$$ Prison...)

Anyways, on to more pertinent (and appropriate) topics...

W C Greene
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Duane-I understand. When I got rid of my old (and beloved On20 Mogollon Railway) layout, I gave it to a felow who hauled it all off. I just couldn't stand to see it in front of the house waiting for the garbage man to arrive. I felt bad for about..ummm...5 minutes...and then began work on the "next installment". Have fun and begin again, it will be aright.
Later...
Woodie

Traingeekboy
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Buildings and all??? Oh man, you could have funded your new layout from he sale of the old on ebay. *shakin' my head*

Charley
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El minero Woodrow fellers..

The whole sale knackers load leads me to believe.....and I apologize for belabouring the point..a new scale..It would do me very proud..and the world would be a better place..if your very esteemed talent is used to replicate the wee railways we all know and love..In a scale better suited to portrayal of the two foot..

That said..

The end of a railway is a beginning.,..to quote..Woodrow P. wordsmith..{famous author..} of a better dream.to live free to feel the sun on ones face..the wind in the hair..the changes for the betterment of mankind..yeah verily..the lord God hisself sits on high in sheer admiration...of the effort of mere model rails,...etc etc..praise be..pass the loot../ ammo...

I am that much closer personally to having  a place to display my books and build a model railroad..the paper has been sorted at the  courthouse in Tonapah Nevada..these old mining towns are notorious for odd / cloudy titles..the title company has the paper.,..that is moving forward..

Here is some lengthy reading..this a thesis on Ryan {new} life and times..very nice..Ken Neighbarger of the Terrapin NG society...found it on the internet and forwarded it to me..great stuff..

http://gradworks.umi.com/1514165.pdf


300 pages or so..quite an epic work..and right up our alley..

Dan B
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Duane, You have got my full attention. Put me down for five shares.
Sorry to see the old T&P shipped out, she was a beaut.
Anyhow, can't wait to see the new line develop.
Buena suerte!
Dan B

Sullivan
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Love the weathering on the truck!

Herb Kephart
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Charlie-

Good news about the Casa!!!

You know the rep-you-ta-shun them people what live in trailers with no windows git!

Herbie


Charley
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Woodrow , fellers..

Heeeeey I resemble that..I got a window...

It s the one I shoots the Alieans outta..like a canon ..?..they think it fun..zooooom...wheeeeeeee...they lead dull lives ..whot schlepping through space all day and all..

Charley

elminero67
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Nothing as drastic as changing scales, in fact I'm reusing the "mesa" and "canyon" modules, just getting rid of the earlier stuff that wasn't up to snuff and trying to incorporate what Ive learned in the last few years.


First things first: The major hurdle the garage itself-it was uninsulated, unlit, dusty, dirty and full of...stuff. Took me over a month of three day weekends to go from this:



to this:

Charley
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El miner o Woodr o fell ows

Wul dang..the garage looks quite nice..good job..,..that is really hard to do..I look forward to the 2 ' 1:35th version..glad you decided to come over to the dark side..

:cool:

Ah...uuuum..yeah..uh ......Woodrow..

elminero67
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Not changing scales..

But to quote the great eastern philosopher Tupac Shakir (who is a great fan of the T & P):

"The best laid schemes o' mice an' men, Gang aft agley"

I didnt have a set plan, but had an idea of a basic trackplan and at least two scenes I was hoping to model. I drew up this quick sketch while at one of those painfully dry "safety" meetings...(apologies with the upside downwardness)



Basically a dogbone with an incline on the loop leading to a potential second level, a small hidden yard that may or may not have scenery, and a mining camp scene loosely based on Bisbee, Arizona I was hoping to sneak in as many sidings as I could after I had an idea of how much space it would take to make a few mountains, like Castle Rock in Bisbee:





But, when I layed it out with 24" corners, it was clear that it wasn't going to fit very well....back to the drawing board. So much for the best laid plans

Dan B
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What about this location in Bisbee?



Might make a nice track side industry.

Dan B
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Like the plan, Castle Rock is one of my favorite locals in Ol' Bis'.  Couple months back I was running by it twice a week.  I was staring at the post cards trying to pick out what had changed and what was the same.  Are you planing on featuring the old trolly line?  Its to bad they pulled the trolly system up it would be neat to see in operation. 

Dan B 

elminero67
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The Elminero restaurant? Somehow missed that one last time I was there. I'm Not planning on running trolleys, just think it is a great mining camp scene. I really like the way it leads the eye, almost makes you wonder what is around the corner.

Here are two more postcards: I suspect the first is the earliest of the four I've posted. Im guestimating that this one is a circa 1907 view:


and the most recent card, which is my personal favorite:



The later date is pretty close to the era I model. As a footnote, copper has far more variation of price than silver or gold (which was historically a set price). To this day, people who live in copper mining camps can often quote the daily price of copper as their livlihood depends on it, dropping prices means layoffs, and high prices means job security...and the timeframe from WWII through the early 1950s were good times in copper country.

I will have no trouble fitting in the Castle Rock scene into the new layout, but the dogbone loop with 24" radius curves will need to be modified...less it get too close to the wife's side of the garage....

Dallas_M
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Beautiful scenes! Looking forward to more of your progress ...

elminero67
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Most of the groundwork for building a "new" layout doesn't lend itself for exciting updates...so while I haven't been posting much, I have been putting in a fair amount of time on the new layout trying to overcome some of the earlier problems. Lately I've been re-painting the backdrop to tie it together, as well as "engineering" (I use that word very loosely)a new bridge over the canyon:



The 5" long black board is a subframe for the new bridge. I will simply attach details and supports to this subframe to make it look like a steel viaduct. It sits on the foundations and is not attached to the layout, the reason being I want it to be able to expand and contract similar to a real bridge. The earlier version failed several times when the garage became so hot that the structure expanded-and poppped making the rails twist.

I also added a hidden return track behind the backdrop. This will allow the layout to be a loop instead of a folded dogbone. I was (and still am) concerned about this idea, as it is difficult to reach to clean and rescue wayward rolling stock.

Charley
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Elminero, Woodrow , fellers..

A track cleaning car is the thing..

make one  masonite dragger..or something which can hold paper towels..one wet ..one dry...

I got together a track cleaning train for the HO tidewater railway...an electronic zapper...and roller abrasive car..a draggers..and one of those fancy tank on wheels with the dripper wiper thing..quite a spendy set ..

 I pushed it by hand into and out of all the sidings..through the indoor industries..it solved  a big problem for me..you can make a couple draggers..and lash up some big powa and push em through..


Yessir..

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elminero67 wrote: I was (and still am) concerned about this idea, as it is difficult to reach to clean and rescue wayward rolling stock.

Regarding derailments on inaccessible trackage, I have wondered whether something like the arrangement in my drawing might work, like a full length rerailer. Might not even need the centre section, if it prevents wheels from jumping the rail in the first place. Easy enough to do on the straights, a bit more hassle to do on curves.



I'm going to try it in the tunnels on my next layout, it can't hurt, might be worth considering?

elminero67
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Never seen that idea before-might be just the ticket on the eight-foot long (2.5 meter) straightaway that is directly behind the newly repainted backdrop. Thanks for passing that on!

Charlie-a masonite-dragging track cleaner car is high on my list of projects.

 If I could only figure out how to make a vacuum cleaner fit on an O scale flatcar to go with it...might make for a very homely, but functional M.O.W. car.

Herb Kephart
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Good thinking, Phil.

I would make the piece that is between the rails go from one rail to the other, at just a little lower than flange depth.

Might encourage the wheel on the "down" side to hop back up where it belongs.

Herb

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Duane, Phil, Charley, Herb:

Lots of good ideas on keeping track clean and the cars on the track.

In HOn30, in staging tracks, I have installed N scale "Rerailer" sections from Atlas snap track spaced every foot or so. Maybe you On30 guys could find Atlas' HO rerailer sections useful.

Keith

W C Greene
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Yes, the good old Atlas HO rerailer sections would probably do the trick. As for the cleaning of the track...well, I have a remedy for that also. When I had about 6 feet of hidden track on my layout, I installed the Atlas things every couple of feet and never had a problem with derailments. Too bad I don't have them on the rest of the layout!!!

Woodie

elminero67
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I think I should just build the whole layout on Atlas "rerailer" sections. Ugly as they are, they work well.

Threw a little more paint on the backdrop last night, Im quickly losing enthusiasm for the backdrop as I am ready to lay track, but once the scenery and bridge are in place it will be difficult to reach the backdrop.
The line of bright green cottonwoods will continue along the river into the foreground, and I'll be adding more color to the rocks as well as many more "trees" to help tie the foreground to the backdrop, as well as define the shapes of the hills. Overall Ill be looking to simplify the scene as it is too busy.

W C Greene
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Jaw dropping time! What else can I say, Duane...?
MAGNATASTICFUL!

Woodie

Si.
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WOW !

Technicolor AND Panavision...

...an epic for sure !

Nice work.

Cheers

Si.

elminero67
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Thanks for the kind words/support.

I'm moving much slower on the new Arizona Consolidated Copper raiload compared to the Torres 7 Prietas as I want to make sure it runs as well as it looks-and doesnt require an hour of repairs every time I want to run trains

This weekend I was fine tuning the bridge trying to make it operate smoothly, which requires a bit of thought and work on a 5' span. The ends are not attached, they float at each end so when the summer heat comes and it expands 3/8 of an inch, it won't buckle the rail:



Almost ready to start putting the details and supports on the new bridge, although the supports on the 5' span will be purely cosmetic:



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That canyon always blows me away when I see pictures of it!

Could you expand (pun intended) on how you deal with the problems due to temperature variation please?

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Half-lapping the rail at each end?

I have a similar problem. The layout "room" gets longer in the Summer by about 3/8", and pulls the overhead wire tight.

Herb

W C Greene
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Oh yes, the wiggly rail syndrome. Unike many (most), I don't need to solder my rails together so on "long stretches", I might have a few short pieces of rail joined with rail joiners and gaps in between. I found that the mean Tejas sun and cold as hell winters cause havoc if I have long pieces of rail. Now, just how that could be done on a wired rail operation is beyond my current thought process. Maybe some feeders/jumpers to carry the juice? Maybe this summer I will set up some sigh-en-tiffick tests to figger this all out.
Duane's scenery is beyond compare and any little track problems can be worked out.

Woodie

Si.
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Si & triffic expereeeeements huh ?

Them Mogollon technical boys...
...top boffins !

Brill bridge !!!

Cheers

Si.

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It is a little hard to see in this photograph, but this is the "solution" I came up:



The bridge is constructed of two pieces if 1 x 8" clear pine ripped down to the same size as the old Atlas girders, which will be glued to the pine as a non-structural veneer. The two pine girders were crowned with a slight bow upwards. Even without the supports, it is easily strong enough to support trans without flexing noticeably. We'll see how it works!

The ends of the bridge are locked in place by small pieces of wood that fits sungly between the two pine girders, the bridge is not physically attached but floats in place. The bridge itself is about 3/8" shorther than the actual gap to allow it to expand, likewise, I'll leave a little gap at each joiner so that it has room to expand when it gets hotter out. Each section of rail will have an electrical contact as the earlier bridges in this location needed constant attention when the joiners moved around:


elminero67
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The last time I built a mountain out of styrofoam and plaster, I vowed not to never build a mountain out of stryofoam and plaster again.

So today, I built a mountain out of styrofoam and plaster. My lawn and driveway are now covered with little stryofoam balls, as is the garage, dog, cat etc...But I did get Castle Rock roughed in:



This is unchartered ground for me as I've never tried to model an actual landform: It is challenging as there really isnt a way to draw a plan or blueprint. I have a few photographs and idea, but it is challenging. It is also difficult to visualize the forms in white stryrofoam as there isnt much in the way of depth or shadows, so I sprayed a touch of spraypoint over a thin layer of plaster:



Or a lower profile:


compared to the postcard:

W C Greene
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ALRIGHT! Duane, you are the master of scenery...and a fine fellow to boot!

Woodrow

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Wow... I can't believe I just went through all 54 pages of this, and never once got bored (Okay, I did, but it was during pictures of real life... not of the layout).

You do EXCELLENT work, sir.

W C Greene
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Dave-Duane is not ony an accompished model railroader but an author and historian as well as artist. And a fine gentleman also. We are proud to have him here on Freerails.

Woodie

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Not only all that, but Duane is a member of a very select sub-group here that install diesels in Jeeps.

Where ya been Duane?


Herb

elminero67
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Appreciate it, too kind!

Because of the kind response, I wrote a haiku to express my current state:



Blue screen brings sadness

Frozen like snow on Fuji

Leaves only I-phone

elminero67
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Good news/bad news:

Good news is Ive been a-tinkering with the trains again. Its been too long since I've had time/energy to do much with the T & P.

Bad news is I'm a little stuck as far as progress goes and am looking for some feedback/input and new ideas. When I left off a year or so ago I had started an expansion. I laid a new loop of track with a passing track, planned a couple of scenes, but when it was all laid out it, it just didnt seem like it was working out...

The previous "solution" was a folded dogbone, that allowed for running in circles, but little room for switching etc. this solution also took up too much floorspace in the garage, particularly the loop in the middle of the garage, which sticks out a little more than my sribbled map shows.

Over the last few years I've considered many solutions. The looped section in the first drawing (next to the door) is built on hinges and intended to fold up out of the way. It didnt work well. It will be removed.

The new solution is to build modular sections that can be removed or lifted out of the way so I have room to work on other stuff. The sections will be very basic, will try to use 2x6' sections that may-or may not- be compatable with modular standards used by some of the ON30 groups...should I get the wild hair to be "social" or whatnot.

The challenge is that I want the new modules to be weather proof, very durable and very light.

Now, Ive heard rumour there is a fellow on this site who modelled in some weird, self-invented gauge, that had experience with weather proof (or rather weather resistent...) modular outdoor narrow gauge stuff. Ive also heard that summoning him is somewhat like the evil gennie in "I Dream Of Jennie; You just don't know what you will get, other than the fact he doesnt like anything like Barbara Eden...

I previously started to build a module using aluminum frame covered in fiberglass, but it was a disaster. I found fiberglass to be stinky, messy, ornery and expensive to work with. But what other material can I use that will be that durable. weatherproof and light?

This goes for the road bed as well. I've always used wood, but that wouldn't work if it gets wet as it swells and shrinks. Any ideas?

What about track? is it possible to handlay track on wood ties that would stand up to moisture, freezing temps etc? or do I need to stick with flexitrack? The last thing I want is to spend time fixing things before I run a train...

Feel free to post any ideas or suggestions that may help. Also feel free to to post pictures of Barbara Eden. that always helps.

Attachment: existing mess.jpg (Downloaded 136 times)

elminero67
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This is what Im thinking for modules. Very basic, but will have switches, maybe a few buildings and whatnot. They won't have much relief. This should allow them to be stacked out of the way...

Attachment: module.jpg (Downloaded 138 times)

elminero67
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This is about what Im thinking-basically a loop in 1/2 of a 2-car garage with the dreaded duckunder to get to the middle. sections 1-4 will be set on sawhorses that will only be down when trains are running, other wise they will be stored. These are the sections I would like to be weather resistant (and durable) so that I can set them up outside at some point. I havent figured out details of the trackplan yet such as sidings etc, but Im hoping to be more operational than the older versions of the T&P.

Attachment: new.jpg (Downloaded 138 times)

Last edited on Mon Dec 29th, 2014 06:40 pm by elminero67

W C Greene
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Excellent news Duane! Yes, outdoors is great, wish I still had...but then I am content being inside now. I can work on the layout anytime I want, rain or snow, or dark of night. But if you want outdoor and want to build in smaller than LGB prefab weather resistant track, handlay on bass, pine, or redwood ties. Balsa will go "south" soon. Spike every 3rd or 4th tie and have plenty of "expansion" joints in the rails. There's more, but I feel you will be better off in the garage...unless you can negotiate the living room to use.
Also, I might advise 4 foot long sections, they are easier to manage than the 6 footers but then that's just my experience.
Just don't ever listen to "can't do that"...can't never did anything!
Oh, and if you really want to operate outside (still a great idea), let me STRONGLY suggest doing away with wiring and running with the controversial radio control idea. But I advise this for most everybody!
Above all, have fun.

Woodie

elminero67
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I might have to step back from the outdoor ON30 until I can solve some of the technical challenges.

Should anyone get the wild hair to use fiberglass as I scenery base for models, I would not recommend it: It is difficult to control, messy, smelly and expensive. Here is my attempt at making an operational, water powered arrastra. I didn't bother finishing the scenery as I wasn't happy with it.


My next "brilliant" idea was to us that spray-on rubber stuff like Rhino Liner over Styrofoam...that didn't work out to so well because, like the fiberglass, it melted the Styrofoam leaving a mess.

So it looks like wood base, Styrofoam forms covered with plaster is the way to go...again.

Ray Dunakin
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Yeah, fiberglass seem like it would be a real nightmare to use for scenery.

Shoulders
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Probably because there solvent based, nice attempt though and good to see some one trying out different materials.
Like the water mill.

Charley
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El Minerio , Woodroue, fellers..

Foam is direct from GOD...it can be used as "the baseboard" no frame whot ever...a block of foam is forever if handled carefully...just set er on some shelf/ shelving...the stuff will get beaat up..but if ya are less concerned with whot the edges look like..OR..glue construction paper to the edges..makes it look purty and keep it kinda stronger togedda..

This really ain't rocket sceince..it is our tendency to over work , over build, over plan...to stasis..I find when i do something..quick and dirty ,haul ass make er .

I found and use 20 minute drywall mud..dry in bag...mix water to suit..brush it over foam..makes a nice crust ..the crust can be broken through ..cut with yer wifes serated kitchen knife..etc etc..you might be single living in Beatty Nevada ..but those serated knives are good..

2" foam..even the white beady stuff from hell..God 's brother ..?..made that stuff.?..but it cheaper ..more available ,..and is quite usable..there is the detail of spiking rails to foam..On the bullfrog railway I glued luan board {door skin} to the foam as a road bed..spread pressure of spiking..{ hereafter} P.O.S....

I didn't lay any ties down whot so ever...painted the whole thing to look like rails on ties which have sunk into rail bed..rails flush with ground lever..I like tracks that look like that anyway..

On my proposed ..I am gonna do er someday ,1/2 " n XX indoors..I intend to lay rails right on the luan board..and where a bridge or fill is encountered to use ties ..OR..tie ends sticking out..this is all show..and after ..hooly wood is our role model...well..The witch chick..and swimmin pools..etc etc..anyways..

Attachment: bullfrog mine tunnel 10 29 14 007 (Medium).JPG (Downloaded 182 times)

elminero67
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I'm not quite ready to throw in the towel on the ON30 outdoor modules idea quite yet. I don't intend to leave them out during monsoon season or anything, just want them to be durable enough so I can transport them easily, and set them up without having to make repairs.

Nothing groundbreaking in the benchwork-just clear 1x10s ripped down, glued and screwed:




I did upgrade the foam from the extruded white stuff to the blue 1 1/2" stuff. Turns out the blue stuff doesn't have the same reaction to paint and other solvents that the extruded white stuff does. I'm also playing with the spray-on foam insulation. Right now it looks like something the puppy would leave on the carpet after eating to much people-food...



The new extension will be based on a different prototype than I have modeled in the past. I'll be posting it as it develops-and am offering a ONE MILLION BESO reward to the person who correctly identifies the location.
Here's the first clue!

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Elminoer, Boodroowe..fellers..

Why..that is just crazy talk..WALES...slate miningerio...?..DANG IT MAN...Send reward..blind accountant..box 981 etc etc..

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After cutting back the extra foam, I had the basic shape. I had to take more time getting the shapes right because there won't be a layer of plaster, joint compound or whatnot.
I'm still going with the spray-on rubber liner stuff (basically a different brand of Rhino-Liner), Im hoping this will seal the exposed wood and function as a sound-deadener. We will have to see how the ballast will glue to it...



After the spray on rubber stuff, I gave the whole thing a heavy layer of latex-exterior paint to seal all of the loose foam and serve as a base for glueing the ground cover. I can't say it will be truly weather proof, but weather-resistant and durable. Ideally I would have used the same shade as the ground cover (soil from the prototype), but this is what I had in the shed, and it isn't too far off.

Last edited on Sun Jan 11th, 2015 09:45 pm by elminero67

Herb Kephart
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Viva la Jeep


Herb

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Duane...excellent idea on using the spray sealant on the foam. I'm interested in how this turns out. It's a shame that there's not a clear "rubber sealant" in a jar which can be thinned with water! The old 50/50 glue & water trick. If anyone invents this, I want royalities...Hmmmmm

Woodrow

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Elminerio,Boodroowe,fellers..

I used foam , the much hated beady white stuff..when I got it shaped the way I wanted..I gave it a coat ..thin with a brush.of 20 minute drywall mud .comes dry in a bag and ya mixes er to the viscous ya want..works pretty good..course..nobody gonna spike tracks to foam..

I laid thin skin ply..luan board ,where I wanted tracks..now..I cheat..HUH...:dope:I laid rails right on the boards..as if the ties were buried..

I intend ..{someday} I am gonna..do this with the next incarnation of the Excelsior this or that..line..ties could be made where needed ..bridges , fills...washouts..etc etc..

elminero67
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Those old Jeeps are kinda like those tribbles in Star Trek-they seem to keep multiplying...

As far as benchwork goes, this is a big step up from the earlier Torres & Prietas benchwork. In the past I used whatever scrap wood I had laying around-which usually meant warped, knotty garbage.

I also wanted to avoid plywood. I hate plywood. Nothing worse than smashing your fingers trying to drive a brad into plywood. Plywood bad.

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Elminero , Breaudreau , fellers..

I am talking of doorskins..nice thin "SOFT" stuff..easy for me to say..I literally have a pallet of the stuff..talked froklift dude out of it one day..brought it home..it was used a dunnage in the shipping of aluminmiuin,mnmniumnm

Lucky me I guess ..I suspect it can be had..?..I mean at yer big box DIY...

The Willy's are cool.. a bit slow for around here on the paving..but great off...

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Charley, the is that a tie house? If so, I bet it was near a railroad! :D

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Once again, following Woodies' lead and moving the train into the house-at least during the day when the wife is at work!

I did get six feet of track laid and ballasted. I had some leftover Micro-mark code 70 flextrack so used it, but I'm really not happy with it: Compared to pictures of desert mining railroads, the ties seem a little small, too short and way too perfect. It doesn't take many years of heat, sun and wind to knock the square edges off ties on the prototype. Looking at old ties along the right of way it is hard to imagine that they were once square pieces of lumber.

I'm also waiting to see how the ballast will look when it dries. In the photograph then ballast is saturated with diluted white glue so it looks much darker than it does when dry. The ballast is from the prototype.
That's all I got, need to clean off the kitchen table and act like nothing happened whilst the wife was away...


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Duane:

I think the track work looks good in the photo. Looking forward to seeing your next model scene progress.

Keith

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:glad::moose::moose::moose::rah::old dude:

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Since I'm not real happy with the flex-track, I'm going to try my hand at handlaid track for the other sections. I've had mixed results with hand laid track.

For the ties I broke into my stash of old wood: Years ago they were tearing down one of those historic wooden water tanks-the kind held together with iron loops like a RR tank. While they were tearing it down I snagged a couple pieces of the wood. Now I wished I had taken more as back in the day they used they best old-growth, clear-grain and quarter-sawn redwood for those tanks. You know it has to be good stuff if it takes three hyphens to describe it!
Anyways, I ripped it down and now have a pile of genuine redwood ties that will be durable, and since they are old-growth they have a very tight grain, unlike the garbage they sell you at Home Despot.



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old cedar fence parts are good also

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I do have some real nice cedar too-don't remember where I got it, but it too is old growth-meaning that it has a real tight grain. Quart-sawn refers to the way they use to rip the pieces at the sawmill back in the 19th century, it wasted a lot of wood but wouldn't warp or twist. Finding old wood in good condition and working with it is a real joy-even if it is just for RR ties.

I have to admit it-in addition to be a wood snob, I'm also a dirt snob. I couldn't tell you the difference between a chardonnay or a merlot, nor could I say what the difference between a diamond and cubic zirconia is, but finding the right dirt/rock for ground cover is one of my favorite hobbies within the hobby. I like my dirt.

Having said that, the dirt I chose for the new modules isn't looking good...yet. The older Torres & Prietas modules were located in the mountains and I found a broken shale outcropping near Mogollon, New Mexico that looked like the sharply broken rocks found on a tallus slope.
The new modules are located on alluvial flats far enough from the mountains that it is very fine with very few rocks-and I'm finding it much harder to replicate the color and texture of the alluvial flats.
In particular I'm having a hard time getting the dirt (which is from the prototype R.O.W.), screened down fine enough to look right. I first used a screen from my bedroom window that I told the wife I "needed to repair"...the dirt came out far too course.
I then stole a sifter from the wife's cherished kitchen wares...but the dirt still came out too course!
lastly, I stole a pair of her nylons and put it on top of a plastic jar to make an ad hoc sifter (second pic). This seems to have done the trick!
That's all I got. I'm calling it a day and going to some "damage control" by taking the wife out for a nice dinner.




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you need a set of u.s. standard sieves if yo can find the size you want in used good otherwise they are expensive gold miners use them for classifying gold bearing black sand to extract the gold

Last edited on Sun Jan 18th, 2015 02:12 pm by chasv

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Depending on how many sizes you want, making your own might make sense.

McMaster Carr has many different sizes of wire mesh and careful choice of the size opening can minimize the cost. Naturally they have a lot of options. The plain steel wire cloth in the smallest size has a .009 opening size @ $2.88 for a sq ft. Going to the 304 stainless offers smaller opening sizes still, for a little more money per panel.

http://www.mcmaster.com/#wire-cloth

Last edited on Sun Jan 18th, 2015 07:09 pm by Thayer

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thanks, good info.

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In addition to finding a way to sort the dirt finer, I've decided to find better dirt. The strange thing is the dirt I was using was from the prototype. Whether it was darker due to interaction with white glue, or the quality of light, it just didn't look right.
So yesterday I did a 400 mile road trip looking for the right dirt to replicate the feel of a true desert railroad-which is hard as I live in the Cascades of Oregon, which are volcanic, rather than the alluvial alkali-looking salt flats seen in the valleys of the Southwestern basin and range country.

Here are a couple of before and after shots showing the new alkali/salt flat/sand dune feel of the light colored material, compared to the darker, coarser dirt taken from the prototype:



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Not much to look at, but I'm almost done roughing in the new depot. Like most of the structures on the Torres & Prietas, those on the new branchline follow the Hollywood western movie set approach; They only need to look good from certain angles:

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Cool!

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Thanks Ray. I look at your beautiful large-scale architecture and become envious-there is a lot of possibilities with a large scale, just wish the track, trucks, locos and other stuff was more affordable.

So far no guesses at the prototype for the new branch line-guess no one wants to collect the ONE MILLION BESOS reward??? My faithful companion, Superpup, will be disappointed as he was going to give the besos...

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I think that there cabin is from MOOSE huntin' territory !

GIMME MY BESOS !!!

Si.

$$$

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Duane:

I'll bite - is your railroad extension based on the Death Valley Railroad or the Borate & Dagger lines?

Keith

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OK Keith, who is going to build Duane a 20 Mule Team model ?.
The NG line to Ludlow perhaps ?.

Regards,              Michael

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Michael:

A good point about the 20 mule team models.  I do still have one though, unbuilt sitting around some where.

Maybe Duane is planning the Fiddletown & Copperopolis?  Carl Fallberg's fantastic cartoon series railroad.

Keith

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Photos by Salada

Regards,    Michael

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Truth is they WEREN'T 20 mule teams, as I found out.

There were 18 mules + 2 horses. Horses nearest to the wagons because mules weren't strong eneough to carry the draw gear. Smartest pair of mules in the lead.

Regards,                  Michael

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Michael:

Interesting photos. Were the wagon boxes painted a light gray? They look slightly blue in your photos and other images I have seen elsewhere.

Keith

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Hello Keith,

Definitely a light grey to the human eye, albeit with a slight tinge of blue.

A former British RR Co used a very similar colour on their freight vehicles, about which there has been much discussion over the years, summarised as follows:

-this colour usually appears to be too blue in any photographic process, whether film or digital.

- depending on the manufacturing process, this colour usually weathers towards blue.

These 20 mule wagons are said to be originals but how many times have they been repainted since the 1880's ?

Light grey was probably easier & cheaper to manufacture than a true blue-grey so IMO light grey is correct.

Regards,                           Michael

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Its pretty easy to do a paint chip analysis to determine the original color. We do it occasional on historic structures. I'd hope that they would have done that before repainting, but in my experience, well intended "restorations" often do far more damage than just being left alone.

Keith was pretty close on his guess, should be a bit easier to identify the location now that the station is coming together:


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Looks like the Keeler depot, and that's definitely the SPNG diesel.

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Yep. Keeler on the Southern Pacific narrow gauge, aka the Carson & Colorado, Slim Princess etc....

I used some of your pics to see the details of the station and am also working on the Sierra Talc plant.

Last time I was in Keeler I was on a USFS fire crew who unfortunately didn't share my enthusiasm for stopping at every desert $&*%hole to take pics of the old buildings....And I believe Keeler has a chance to make my "Top 10 $*&%holes in the West," right up there with Battle Mountain Nevada, Lordsburg, New Mexico, Happy Camp Ca....

Last edited on Wed Feb 11th, 2015 02:16 pm by elminero67

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Cool!

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''the EPA is suing the mining company that owns the company town, and is going to do one of their "clean-ups."

Who voted for those SOB's in the first place? I thought that laws were supposed to come from congress--

EPA? We don't need no stinking EPA

and

WELCOME BACK, Verne

Hope none of the Mods read this--I could get banned

Gromit's old man


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Yep. Probably don't want to get into political opinions here. I just have a strange fascination with those strange desert towns that make you wonder why anyone would live there-I suspect a lot of them are there just to get as far away from politics as they can...

I'm still testing different ground covers and whatnot. I had thought that the spray on rubber "Rhino Liner" type stuff would do a good job sealing the frame and work as a sound deadener, but, it creates a separate issue as regular diluted white glue doesn't bond to it very well.

In addition, spray on diluted white glue isn't working that well because it wants to coagulate the flour-size ground cover into little balls, rather than the smooth "sand dune" look I'm trying to get. So I need to try something else.
Any ideas for glueing the ground cover?



Ray Dunakin
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You need to break the surface tension by adding some liquid detergent to the mix.

If it was me, I'd use acrylic matte medium instead of white glue, though. Especially if you want this to be outdoors.

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I spray ground cover with 50/50 90%alcohol and water before adding glue and get no balling.

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I go with the alky/water mix also, although the smell gets a little bit too much without good ventilation. Would use Bourbon/water except it's too expebsive (the Bourbon-- before some wag says how cheap water is)

Herb

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Thanks!
Will give it a "shot" today

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Because the upper floor of the station has so many windows, I'm installing enough interior details so that it doesn't look like a Hollywood movie shell at a casual glance. For the wall paintings I'm going with the classics: "Dogs Playing Poker" on the left and Bob Ross' "Cabin, Stream and Snowcapped Mountain" on the left

I would expect no less from someone who lived in Keeler.

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I have to admit. These seemingly simple little modules based on the Owens Valley are kicking my @$$!

I'm considering throwing in the towel on the fine talc-like ground cover. For reasons unknown, it is decidedly hydrophobic, even when the diluted glue has some alcohol to help break the surface tension. This also means that it won't work into the forms I was hoping to get, such as small sand dunes or to help form the eroded small ravines.

Fail.




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Duane:

I think the landforms look good in the photos.

Keith

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Have you tried adding some detergent to the mix?

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Thanks Keith/Ray. The detergent trick seems to be working much better than the alcohol.

Despite my frustration, I'll stick with the light color ground cover-if I can figure out how to make it "behave." While I described it earlier as a talc, it is actually calcium carbonate-better known as chalk, from a deposit of nearly pure chalk I saw while out on a weekend roadtrip. Because it as chalk, I also hope to use it to weather the rolling stock so that it matches the dry, dusty landscape. I'm also hoping that it will accept paint/stain to give a little variety, and it is easier to darken a ground cover than lighten it.


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What kind of SUV is that? Is it a Trooper?

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Almost as bad as a Trooper! Its a Montero.

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For shame!

Shoulda oughter used the Jeep

That way you could have brought home a truckload--

Herb

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I agree-the Jeeps are more fun-except on the highway! The yellow one has gears like a Shay-I still haven't had it above 45mph!

The reason I'm moving so slow on this stage of construction is that the desert of Owens Valley is a lot more stark and desolate than the juniper covered mesas of the earlier portions of the Torres & Prietas. This means I can't just conveniently plant a juniper tree or bury the landforms that don't look right with a tallus slope. The subtle landforms on the new modules will need to stand on their own, because other than a little sage and buckbrush, there isn't much growing along the old Carson & Colorado in the southern end of the valley near Keeler...

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Soooo: Is it better to permanently mount the structures to the module, or make them removable?

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Duane-looking great! Just like the fellow said..."to model the SPNG (C&C) all you need is a length of flex track and a bucket of sand." I might make the structures removable but bring the "earth" up around the bases so they look like they should. I wanted to model the C&C long ago but there were no 4-4-0 HOn3 lokies then (before FED). There were SP 2-8-0's and 4-6-0's and some nice "box of sticks" kits for SP cars. I eventually got one of the ten wheelers but it had the motor in the whaleback tender and ran like s#$%^&

Oh well. Then I saw the SCPA&M's hairpin curve photo and forgot all about Mound House and Keeler. That had to have been about 50 years ago.

Woodie

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looks like the owens valley to me

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What I can see of it looks great!

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That doesn't help! If the SP narrow gauge can be modeled with flextrack and a bucket of sand, I'm working too hard!

I also bought one of them newfangled Bachmann 4-6-0 locos. Hope to make it look like either #9, or #18, whichever is easier (forgive the crappy lighting, used an auto light and the pics came out all weird and stuff). At a minimum, will need to swap cabs and build a whaleback tender. The domes are wrong too, but I'm trying not to make a career out of replicating the SP narrow gauge roster.




I also ordered a handful of basic Bachmann oxide red boxcars. They really don't look much like the SP boxcars, except that they are red and kinda square.

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Duane,

The new SP narrow gauge layout venture is looking pretty good.

Congratulations on your article on the Torres y Prietas layout in the April 2014 Model Railroader.  It's nice to see a track plan of the layout, and the photos look great.

Keith

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Duane, you always work too hard! It's looking great as always. I don't even notice the "regular" tender. I think that Weismann makes a kit for a whaleback tender but I know that you can fashion one that does the job.

As I wrote a while back, I began my fascination with narrow gauge with the C&C/SPNG when I was just a young 'un. My favorite book then was "Slim Rails Through the Sand" by Turner (I have a copy of it). A wonderful railroad.

BTW-a few months back I was watching "retro TV" and there was an episode of Annie Oakley from the 1950's. Well, guess what? SP #9 and train were the "guest stars". Annie & the sheriff had to foil a robbery and Annie ended up stopping the train after jumping into the empty cab! I had never seen a film of the SP in action...just still photos...and this was a real treat! Also in the show was SP #401, the old passenger/caboose! I guess sometimes it pays to be watching the tube instead of doing some "serious" modeling.

I am watching this new turn of events, keep building my "first love"...Thanks and again, you got it down!!!

Woodie

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I just read your MR article on your layout, really good work! :bow: You mentioned your railbus and not knowing what the body was from, it looks like one of these: http://fomentek.com/opentop_index.htm
elminero67 wrote:
I agree-the Jeeps are more fun-except on the highway! The yellow one has gears like a Shay-I still haven't had it above 45mph!What kind of Jeep do you have? I think your layout is screaming for a civilianized/repainted MB/GPW or a CJ-2. I have a 1944 Willys MB, myself:

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my brother has a m1a1 that spent it's life at camp pendtelton

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Thanks Keith-Lee; That is where I got the railbus!
Sometimes wish I had one of those "little" jeeps like a CJ2 or M1A1, but instead I built a Willys pickup so I could use it for firewood and whatnot.

Getting back to work on those pesky sand dunes....

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:bg::rah::Salute::mex:

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elminero67 wrote:
Lee; That is where I got the railbus!How'd you stuff an Athearn SW into that? It's not all that big, I assume you had to cover up the motor and running gear when it went into the bus?
I'd love to see a shot that looks down into the bus as I assume it still has the open top? Couldn't tell from the MR shots...

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Lee-Ill try to post a few pics of the railbus if I get home before dark one of these nights. Really a pretty easy conversion-if it wasn't I would have been able to do it!

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Here's a couple shots of the wayward bus from the MR article: Its just 1/2 of an old Athearn SW1500 locomotive (Think I paid $5 at a local train show). The front truck is the extra from a Bachmann ON30 4-4-0. To close the top I just cut a piece of flat brass and glued a couple of weights to it. Then threw a few unsavory characters (though not as unsavory as some of those on Woodie's ol Mogolon Ry), and that's about it. Since the bus was basically free, the whole rig cost the T&P less than $10.00 (which I believe translates to something like 20 million pesos)...




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:mex::mex::mex::moose::moose::moose::rah::rah:

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Ah, so it's HALF of an SW. That's why i was so confused, I didn't think the whole thing would fit in there...

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You mean THESE unsavory characters?

Woodrow

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Yep, thats them. No reputable railroad would associate with folks of that class. I can almost smell them from here.

Last edited on Thu Mar 5th, 2015 01:36 pm by elminero67

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Love the bus!

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Still working on the "bucket of sand with two rails..."

I've decided to permanently set the buildings into the module rather than leave them loose. I'm still working on the Keeler station itself, but the railroad tie shed has been set and am starting to plant some shrubs and grass around the Keeler yard:



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Duane, that's coming together nicely! I agree about planting the structures in the ground, it seems to bring things into harmony. This makes me remember fondly my early C&C/SP efforts but mine were those of a young teen and maybe clouded by the sands of time. What was that about sand??

Woodie

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Thanks Woodie. I hope that if I can figure out how to capture the desert plants of the Great Basin, the modules will "work." If not, they probably won't.
That's why I had to chuckle at the "bucket of sand" comment because I find modeling the Owens Valley more challenging than mountains, canyons or city scenes. Its subtle, but challenging. And there is no place to hide your booboos.

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Couple more shots from earlier today:





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Since I cant reproduce historic images of the Southern Pacific narrow gauge, here's a recent picture from the former right of way near Laws to give an idea of the landscape:
Not exactly a "garden spot" (particularly since Los Angeles stole all of their water)!

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been to the train museum at laws found it interesting took pictures mostly of the turn table

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Looks like you could use a big bag of brown carpet fuzz for all that dead sagebrush.

Speaking of fuzz--that looks like a cop car of that era to me---

Herb

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Here's an overview of the town of keeler. All three streets...


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Road trip!

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:rah::moose::moose::moose::glad::bg:

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Duane,

What a great looking scene! Nice modeling

Keith

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that's coming along nice.

:2t:

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Thanks-it's still a long way from being finished but is coming along. Slowly.

The reason I brought the module with me on the road trip is that I wanted to see how the module would blend in to the background. Basically this was just a "dry run" to scout out locations. I'm hoping to bring all of the Southern Pacific Narrow Gauge modules to Owens Valley for an outdoor operating session at some point.

Hanging out in Keeler for the day was...interesting.

I parked near the old Keeler station and began to unload my motorcycle to do the Cerro Gordo ghost town/Salt Tram 4x4 road loop (I highly recommend it with the right equipment). As I was unloading the motorcycle, a friendly lady across the street offered to allow me to park in front of her house to make use of her shade tree as it was getting pretty hot out. I have to admit, I was a little puzzled as I didn't see a shade tree. Me being from "wet side" of Oregon, and her being from the Owens Valley, we obviously had different interpretations of what constitutes a "shade tree." At the same time felt it would be impolite not to accept her generous offer, so moved my truck into the "shade" as best as I could.

Here is the alleged "shade tree:"

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Not everyone else in town was as accommodating: I had hoped to get better pictures of the old Sierra Snow Talc plant, which was the major shipper on the Southern Pacific narrow gauge for the last few years of operation:



I'd like to build a model of this plant, but have not found enough good pics on the internet to see the details, particularly of the back sides of the plant that cannot be seen from the road. As I was walking by the Sierra Snow plant, I saw a lady outside of the trailer/shack next doors and asked if it was OK to shoot a few pics of the plant-it was more like a road that accessed several places and wasn't her property, so I probably could have taken the pics without asking, but I was trying to be courteous. In my eagerness to get closer to the plant, I overlooked some obvious signs. I was stumbling into a tweaker pad. I could tell the lady was very uncomfortable with me being around (read paranoid), so I backed off.

Fail.

So if anyone gets the chance to get better pics of the old Sierra Snow Talc plant, I'd appreciate it. Just watch out for the tweaker pad.

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Woah!!! Watch out for them bad uns'. Reminds me of long ago driving onto a moonshiner's property in the E Texas woods while chasing the TX State RR. My son said-"dad, look at that guy's gallon jugs sitting on a shelf outside." The "farmer" looked to be going for his gun and I proceeded to back a 26 foot motor home...BACK...out of the woods as fast as hell! I got even more "railroad adventure" stories!!!

Woodie

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Its amazing how fast you can back an RV when you need to!

Back in my younger days when I was on a Hotshot fire crew we had a "safe" word ("RTO"), which was code for turn around immediately, walk fast and don't ask questions. "RTO" (reverse tool order) was usually used when the fire was about to blow up on us, but also used when we would stumble on pot grows or meth labs.

Last edited on Tue Mar 24th, 2015 01:09 am by elminero67

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... nothing like the correct dose of motivation!. Jose.

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Elminerio Beaudreau fellers..

Nice light in the southern desert..colours change in the light too..hard to get it right..let us know the difference between the effect of "real" light and fake light..?..an assignment..university of MR...doctorial thesis..thanks for sharing..

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Thanks Charlie-I was thinking about shooting you an email to see if you were around since I was in your neck of the woods (sands?), but when the wind started picking up I hightailed it back to greener pastures (Oregon).

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Eminerio fellers..

The wind blows some here..I have designed a system..force one through five breezes..which then become force one through five wind...there must be some official format..but , one just knows..the local saw is.." Say , does the wind always blow this way , wul no ..mister..sometimes the wind blows the other way.. "...

We actually have a very nice climate..3300 hundred feet elevation makes things pretty mild ..for the desert..and of course , we live in "Oasis valley "...along the mighty Amargosa river..I live on "Beach " street...hard by the grand canon of the Amarogsa...there might be some embellishing here..:us:

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:bg::moose::moose::moose::moose::2t:

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I feel much better now that I have received Charles' patented emoticon cheer!

One of the things I was hoping to do-and I wasn't fully able to, was line up the model with the background. I was hoping to use the existing historic structures as a background by carefully placing the camera and module. The first challenge I had was estimating how far away from the real structures I needed to place the module so it would be in scale:
This was my first attempt, and compared to historic photographs, it is a little too far from then Sierra Snow Talc plant:

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Attempt #2 I moved the module a little closer to the Sierra Snow plant. By this time the sleepy little town of 50 residents was abuzz. residents who clearly hadn't pulled a weed since the Southern Pacific railroad removed the narrow gauge rails of Keeler suddenly needed to come outside and pull weeds-all the while keeping one eye on me and try to figure out what I was doing. Garbage was taken to the street, oil levels was checked in their trucks. I'm quite sure more maintenance was done on the town during the few hours I was there than had been performed in many years.

Anyhow, this shot was a little closer to the talc plant:

Last edited on Wed Mar 25th, 2015 03:35 am by elminero67

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I had it backwards-this was the first attempt:

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Here are a couple of links to historic photographs of the Keeler station and the Sierra talc plant (don't want to go posting others stuff):

http://carsoncolorado.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/KeelerSt1954.jpg

http://www.richyodermodels.com/rym_images/ge_50/sierra_talc_keeler_shaw600x393.jpg

http://mavensphotoblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/HILD-87b-Keeler-Railroad-Station-date-unk-.jpg

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Hi Duane.

Great scene !

Love the 'sink & sway' on your railroad-tie shack.


Railfaning in 'bandit country' sounds quite hazardous !

With all those tweakers & shiners about...

...they might be advertising Kevlar in 'Trains' magazine anytime soon.

(perhaps they already are)

All the best.

Cheers.

Si.

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Elminerio, fellers..

Oh you funny...the residents pulling weeds adn checking oils.hahahaha ..

AND..the colours look very good..something about the track does not look so right to me..maybe it is too proud of the ground..not sunk in enough..BUT..all in ..quite a good job..and wacky stuff to go there and make pitchers..you are ...of course....quite mad....

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Oh my god that looks so real. Thought is was at first, real prototype picture of what your modelling.
Nice work

Last edited on Wed Mar 25th, 2015 07:26 am by Shoulders

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:glad::bg: all the pictures look great some better than others but i think you have the colors right

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What can I say more? Great job!

Alwin

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thanks!

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Duane, for the pure of soul & mind and other liars, please explain "tweaker pad" ?.

So we aren't the only folk who think Lordsburg NM a trifle grotty (as we say)(Gruesome).
We recently drifted through there ... & quickly out again. We saw the cheapest gas in the West, $1.87/gall (Jan 2015) - amazingly the engine didn't run any worse on it (no better either !). Gallup NM also similar.

Great idea checking out the model against the real scene. Looks like your desert dust gluing experiments ended up OK ?.


Regards,                 Michael

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Of course...a "tweaker pad" is a house where drug addicts, specifically methamphetamine (crystal meth, meth etc...) live. So nasty is that stuff that it kinda transforms normal people into paranoid, twitching zombies, hence the term "tweaker."
Unfortunately, small towns in the American West like Keeler or Lordsburg have been hit hard by methamphetamines, so nearly every small town has a few tweaker pads...

The characteristics of a tweaker pad include windows blacked out with towels or tinfoil, disassembled electronics and vehicles and general filth and lack of any maintenance. Often an old mobile home or RV.

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An argument could be made that the old Keeler station is a "tweaker pad."
A few years back, the owners (who live out of the area) fixed up (a relative term) the two-story side of the old Southern Pacific building and were renting it out, but according to the lady who granted me use of her shade tree, the strong smell of cat pee from the stray cats that have lived in the building for the last 50 or so years made it unbearable.



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And a couple more of the station-which is really not in that bad of shape considering it is one of the oldest buildings in the Owens Valley. The two story side was constructed around 1917, the one story side dates back to the 1880s (I'm going from memory-don't quote me!).



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:bg::glad::glad::glad::rah: great pictures

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:moose::moose::moose::moose::moose:

Si.

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Here's another angle that I may be able to incorporate the real house and street into the model scene:



I can see that my colors are a tad off, especially the bushes on my module have more color (yellow) that those in Keeler, but I think that will be easy to tweak. What I like is the way the house in the background appears almost unchanged since the Southern Pacific Narrow Gauge pulled up its rails in the early 1960s.
If I move module over just a tad to line it up with the street, use a few carefully placed props...

Last edited on Sun Mar 29th, 2015 01:31 am by elminero67

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:bg::moose::moose::moose::moose::2t:

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Where do you get those emoticons? I'm lucky if I can remember the basic :) ...

I'm back in Oregon after cavorting around Owens Valley and the Great Basin chasing trains and ghost towns, so I thought I'd tackle a couple of operational issues on the "old" parts of the Torres & Prietas. The first issue is the stub switch with a crossover. I built it about three years ago and it worked great. For about a week. Since then its been superglued "open" to the mainline so I could run trains.



The second thing I hope to fix today is the big bridge. After three years I still haven't installed the supports, and can't say I really have a plan. I had used structural styrene on the earlier version, but it was quite flimsy and not very detailed. I'd like to do brass, copper or aluminum, but none of the stores locally carry the right material. I'm open for suggestions.

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Thanks Duane. I've now taken down our bath-towels drying in our windows but the scrap in our back garden (yard) & the RV will take a little longer to tidy up !. Didn't realise these things were such a giveaway !. Crystal meth is over here too, unfortunately, but not so evident as you say it is in some U.S. communities.

Had I known Keeler depot was so intact we would have travelled over there but I thought/assumed Owens Valley was RR artefact-free by now.

Bush/scrub growth too yellow ?. Surely depends on time of year & rainfall - probably too dry where your modules are stored !. Your handywork look damn good from here.

Regards,              Michael

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Yep, Keeler is full of artifacts and architecture left over from the railroad days. Without the "locals" keeping an eye on it, everything would have been taken or destroyed over the years. I'll try to post a few more pics of some of the other stuff in Keeler on a rainy day.


I also took the time to drive along the narrow gauge right-of-way. I think it is safe to say artifact collectors have been active along the mainline, but there are still some intact segments of right-of-way that are great for hiking or biking though-Here is a nice section north of Montgomery Pass:

Last edited on Tue Mar 31st, 2015 03:00 am by elminero67

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:glad: good to see more of the T&P the train museum out side of Bishop is still there

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El minerio Si Beaudreau fellers.

That looks quite good....seems a bit mad to take a model out to the scene of the crime..kinda far out..neat..far out..neat..like..

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Thanks Duane. I would appreciate some more Keeler area RR photos whenever it rains !

Regards,                    Michael

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Michael just posted the 666th post in this thread. Coincidence?
Seriously though, will post more pics of Keeler this weekend when the rain (finally) returns to Oregon. Its been dry.

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"666" is better than "9-9-9", the 'Miner's Lament' - meaning 'danger' or in some mines 'raise dead body'. Hard rock winding bellcodes based on 3 or a multiple of 3 usually signifies a person(s) riding rather than materials, ore or muck etc.

Regards,          Michael

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El Minero Sir -- dimensioned photo "plans" of the talc plant appeared in the NMRA Bulletin years ago. Somewhere on one of my storage drives I have copies of the article.

Before retirement last year I used Death Valley as the shortcut from Las Vegas to US 395 to go to Carson City and Reno -- mostly divided highway in California beat the heck out of the two lane in Nevada.

I have lots of "scenic" pictures of Owens Valley for backdrop use if I ever go back to modeling SPNG.

The ride over Montgomery Pass as an alternate route in my Z4 was a pleasant one.

Bill Uffelman
Ocean View DE

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WATCH OUT for anyone you meet who has the "666" tatooed (or branded) on their skin. Remember what the Rolling Stones sang..."please allow me to introduce myself..."

Back on topic, Duane...I finally got to see your MR article and it has, without a doubt, the best photography of the most realistic modeling that I have seen. Thanks for mentioning me, several local dudes have remarked that I am now famous! Keep on keepin' on.

Woodie

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Bill-If you do find the article on the talc plant I'd really appreciate it! I'd hate to start working on the talc plant without some sort of plan-like I did with the Keeler station.
Woodie-Don't know about the hyperbole, but I appreciate the kind words. I probably should have warned you that I threw you under the bus in the MR article.

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Colonel Pinchfist of the T&P checking in:
Taking a break from the modules to build a few pieces of Southern Pacific -esque rolling stock because well, there just isn't much Southern Pacific narrow gauge stuff available in 1:48 scale. Plus, even if there were, I'm too cheap to buy it, hence the self-proclaimed title of "Colonel Pinchfist." After all, every dubious mining or railroad enterprise had a "Colonel" involved-usually right before all of the stockholders $ disappeared.

Anyways, in the true spirit of frivolity Im putting together a water car using a piece of PVC and the lid from a "Tide" container pilfered from the wife...vamos a ver.

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very good :rah::rah::rah::moose::moose::moose::moose::glad::2t:

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Had a great night modelling while watching Wisconsin kick Kentucky's arse in the Final Four. Great game. The modelling, not so much:



I used styrene for the straps that hold the tank down, and looking at the pic, it seems like the material is a tad too thick. I may switch the styrene for brass...

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I haven't operated the SP narrow gauge modules attached to the "old" Torres & Prietas portions of the railroad yet. so I'll try to 'splain how things are suppose to work. With an emphasis on the word suppose. As always, forgive the mess, the garage is used as a shop, a garage, storage etc so is always a mess...

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Here is the basic "plan" for the Keeler modules:



And this is the plan that will will allow the layout to expand into the middle of the garage, while still allowing it to be pulled up while not being used so the garage can still be used for working on Jeeps, motorcycles and whatnot (forgive the really, really bad drawings)



Basically I'm hoping to use piano hinges, a couple pulleys and some wire to pick the two Keeler modules and fold them close to the wall. Will it actually work? More specifically can a hack carpenter/model builder like myself make it work?

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drawings are great if you can rebuild a wore out jeep you should be able to make it work
:moose::moose::moose::moose::2t::pop:

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Another thought is what sort of space do you have overhead?

I like the idea of the folding modules to give you working room but do they need to fold? What would happen if you joined the modules permanently and just raised them on cables to get them out of the way?

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The space above these modules has a drop down access for the attic. The garage door mechanism takes up the front 1/2 of the garage, so unfortunately there isn't much available space against the ceiling.

Last edited on Sun Apr 5th, 2015 10:12 pm by elminero67

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Sounds like hinged and folding modules are the way to go then. I think the piano hinges will be more than stable enough to accomplish the goal.

Last edited on Sun Apr 5th, 2015 11:18 pm by Thayer

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Here's a bigger picture plan of what the latest incarnation of the T&P looks like. As opposed to the track plan in the recent MR article, it is now a long point to point going from Keeler to Owenyo. Also gone is the yard and smelter, leaving limited switching opportunities along the way. I will be adding a few sidings along the ROW as well as a projected removable extension allowing a continious loop with more switching opportunities. IF, and a big if, the folding and removable sections work out.

chasv
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:rah::rah::moose::moose::moose::moose::glad::bow::pop:

Herb Kephart
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Too many movable pieces cut drastically into the times that the layout is used------

Herb

elminero67
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First "real" train to Keeler.

chasv
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:rah::rah::rah::rah::moose::moose::moose::glad::glad::glad::pop:

Ray Dunakin
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I like the backdrop!

Shoulders
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I like all of it.

:glad::glad:

elminero67
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Thanks-I usually don't rely on the backdrop when I'm doing outdoor photography, but it does a fair job of making the narrow shelf layout look like the wide open "big sky" country of the American West while it is stuck indoors. I've always used Masonite with good ol' interior housepaint, matching the sky blue ( a rich, deep blue in the desert) and fading it down to the horizon with a slight tint of magenta near the horizon. Looking at the pics I wished I would have ran the backdrop up higher....



The even narrower (unscenicked part) shelf above my workbench will be even more of a challenge to make it feel like the wide open spaces it it is only 16" wide and will be a bit of a spaghetti bowl as I try to make the layout more fun to operate (note the unfortunate placement of the ONLY electrical outlet in that side of the garage).

chasv
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:rah::rah::moose::moose::moose::glad::glad::glad just move the receptacle to a better location

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... or get two extension cords with the wire molded on the side instead of straight out... Jose.

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I'm afraid to touch the outlet.

chasv
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:doh::dt:

elminero67
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Spent the rest of the afternoon bouncing between half-finished projects, like laying flextrack for the remainder of Keeler:



Some of you my remember the red, corrugated metal structure as part of Comanche Mining Co smelter on the earlier version of the T&P. Since it has approximately the same roof pitch and overall dimensions as the Talc plant, Ill see if I can reuse it.

Here is the real one:

elminero67
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Here's a few historic pics:

http://www.owensvalleyhistory.com/keeler/talc_loading_1959_s.jpg

http://www.virtualtransportationmuseum.com/gallery2/d/1102-2/HILD-34.jpg

pipopak
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elminero67 wrote: I'm afraid to touch the outlet.
Is it holding the whole room together?. Jose.

elminero67
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Im afraid to touch it because I suspect it is not up to code. The last time I rewired a few outlets it cost me $$$ because I couldn't prove a licensed electrician did it when I went to sell the house. I ain't touching it!

chasv
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:rah::rah::glad::glad:right answer

elminero67
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IIrc it cost me 5K....

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Fascinating historic photos Duane, thanks.

Photo 1:

 Any idea how the talc was loaded into the boxcars ? Was it bagged or shovelled in loose ?  Or maybe a powered sack elevator set at a low angle ?

Photo 2 : Fascinating ! :

Stub switch with 'harp' type stand.

Are they locos tender or some sort of extended bunker tank locos ?. They look like oil burners, especially the nearest loco.

Behind the nearest telegraph pole is that a speeder parking & track access point ?.
I have never seen an angled arrangement like that before.

Just interested.......  Michael

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that looks so cool :)

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Michael: I believe they loaded the talc into box cars in 90lb bags. Very labor intensive but pure talc deposits are hard to find-and I suspect the Inyo Talc Co had a big advantage over other talc mines as the Owens Valley and nearby Death Valley are so dry that they didnt need to roast/dry the talc ore before shipping. There is an irony there somewhere.

Hard to se from that angle, but the SP narrow gauge locos were oil-burners and had those iconic whale-back tenders like #8 here pulling EEK! GADS! a STANDARD GAUGE crummy. OH THE HUMANITY!

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A couple more historic shots of Keeler:

http://www.owensvalleyhistory.com/carson_n_colorado/keeler_diaz1_small.jpg

http://www.richyodermodels.com/rym_images/ge_50/sierra_talc_keeler_shaw600x393.jpg

http://carsoncolorado.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/KEELERNO9.jpg

Last edited on Tue Apr 21st, 2015 01:38 am by elminero67

Keith Pashina
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Duane,

Thanks for posting the historic photos along with your modeling work. Really enjoying seeing the progress on the new layout.

Keith

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Thanks Duane.

I had also wondered why there should be 4 locos at such a remote location. Since you confirmed that they are oil burners I think this might a re-fuelling point. Immediately in front of the "speeder access point" (if that is what it is) there is a ground tank &, in front of that, what looks like a hand cranked pump with an overhead delivery pipe.

Regards,               Michael

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Keeler was both the end of the line and servicing facilities until they were moved to Owenyo in the later years of operation-hence the plethora of motive power.
The simplicity and functionality of the track layout are what make it a great prototype, I could almost include every spur..if I extend the layout just a tad more by the washing machine and dryer... :cb:

Last edited on Tue Apr 21st, 2015 10:35 pm by elminero67

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Thanks for posting those great vintage pics of Keeler! I've never seen most of those before, very interesting stuff. It's too bad that large structure across the tracks from the talc mill no longer exists, it looks really interesting.

You really did incredible work on those backdrops. My few attempts at painting clouds gave me a lot of respect for anyone who can do them right. :)

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Thanks Ray, I've blundered through many clouds before I found a technique that works for me, at least to the degree that they aren't laughable. All it took was for me to unlearn things that I thought were true...

Here's another pic of the aerial tramway terminal, aka the "other" tall building at Keeler. really an interesting structure, and a great way to model the mining industry, without, well, modelling the entire mine.

http://contentdm.library.unr.edu/cdm/singleitem/collection/spphotos/id/6405/rec/17

Ray Dunakin
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Wow, I didn't realize that was a tram terminal. What was at the other end? Was that the brine tram from Saline Valley?

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The tramway terminal adjacent to the talc plant was not part of the well-known "Salt Tram," but rather hauled silver/lead ore from the nearby mining town of Cerro Gordo. Lots of $$$ came from Cerro Gordo, but by the time the aerial tramway was installed the ore grade was much lower.

Here are a few more pics of the tramway:

http://www.owensvalleyhistory.com/carson_n_colorado/tram_terminus.jpg

http://www.owensvalleyhistory.com/carson_n_colorado/cg_keeler_tram_house.jpg

http://www.owensvalleyhistory.com/carson_n_colorado/cg_tram_terminus.jpg

And a shot of Cerro Gordo itself. In ways Keeler was just the railhead for Cerro Gordo and a few other mining districts.

http://www.owensvalleyhistory.com/carson_n_colorado/fat_hill2.jpg

Last edited on Fri Apr 24th, 2015 02:04 pm by elminero67

Sean W
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Do you have any videos of your layout?

elminero67
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I started to take one a short video few years back (the same day I did the MR photo shoot), but don't remember where I put it...will look for it....

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the MRR photoshoot was a couple years ago?

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Yeah, from what I can tell, it takes a year or two from the time a person submits an article to the time it is published in MR. NG & SL Gazette is a little faster. Id have to look at the date of the photos, but I believe I took them in the summer of 2013-or was it 2012?

elminero67
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Jeez...it has been a long time! I had to go back two laptops ago to find the pics I took for MR: Those pics were taken in September of 2012!

Back in the day when the Torres & Prietas still had the smelter:



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:2t::2t::moose::moose::moose::moose::moose::rah::rah::rah::glad::glad::pop:

Ray Dunakin
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Thanks, very interesting stuff. I wonder what the ramp was for at the south end of that tram terminal (second photo)?

Also, great pic of Cerro Gordo in its prime. It's too bad the current owners are so unfriendly towards visitors, and a real shame that some bad visitors have engendered that attitude in them.

Ray Dunakin
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elminero67 wrote:
NG & SL Gazette is a little faster.

First time I've heard that! Usually it's complaints about how long they hold onto stuff before printing it.

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Now that you mention it, I've heard that too. I believe both magazines keep a pretty good backlog of articles, often sitting on them for years. I haven't published much through either, but do know that when publishing anything be prepared to have thick skin, and make sure you have some form of written contract specifying the particulars of the agreement.

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any luck finding that video?

better yet take a new one :D

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No. I found the video camera, but the SD card is missing. Will keep looking but it is only about a minute or two of footage, really not much to look at.

Meanwhile, back at the ranch, I again found a way to snatch defeat from the hands of victory...

Just as I was putting the final touches on the SP narrow gauge style tank car, I fumbled it, then dropped it breaking off the handrails and other details... :(

Ray Dunakin
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Bummer. I hate it when that happens.

Si.
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" Butterfingers ! " ...

... my Mom used to say.

Cheers.

Si.

:moose:

My Dad used to say ...

... " Don't despair, REPAIR ! "

elminero67
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Butterfingers is right! I think I should move up to that big scale stuff Ray has...may not look as purty.

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:doh:but :moose::moose::moose::rah::rah: for the effort

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" I think I should move up to that big scale stuff Ray has "

Hi Duane.

If you're gonna drop it...
...make sure you've got your steel-toecap slippers on !

:moose:

Si.

Sean W
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Anything new going on with the Torres y Prietas?

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